Reply to: This made me laugh...

[darmstadt]

I read a report a while ago saying that the current influx of immigrants to Germany will increase it's GDP, eventually, which I found somewhat hard to swallow at first but here's a couple of interesting articles about why this may well happen:

Germany’s Immigration Challenge - The Globalist

How will refugees affect European economies? | Bruegel

Germany's Welcoming Approach to Refugees May Bring Economic Perks - Fortune

Refugees Are an Opportunity for the German Economy - SPIEGEL ONLINE

[Flashman]

So all we have to do now is import billion Chinese people and we'll be the biggest economy in the world!
Vote Conservative!

[woohoo]

immigrants overall have a positive effect on GDP. And as I've already said, I'm not a fan of unrestricted immigration - the information you have linked to is one of the reasons for that. Another is cultural impact.

I didn't see your link, I've seen others and usually the data used to argue a positive effect on GDP is over a selected period, usually when you widen the data its not so positive. Often the data does not include costs for housing families, medical expenses, pressure on schools and GP's. Nor does it take into account long term costs of looking after them and their families (often much larger than native families). The data usually doesn't include how the heck you pay for their pensions etc. Presumably you just add more younger migrants.

[SueEllen]

you have no evidence of that other than your prejudices. Whilst I suspect a few are like that the great majority can do the math!


Youth unemployment rate is worst for 20 years, compared with overall figure | Society | The Guardian

You could be almost £1.50 an hour better off working. So you could stay in bed and claim benefit or get up and work in the 'informal economy'.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/yes-your...reduce-poverty

why would you work if that was your choice assuming you could find a job?

In London there are plenty of low paid jobs - I see them advertised all the time in shops and outside businesses.

In fact if you go up and down your local high street like a few young people I've known have done including this year, and are happy to work in a variety of businesses you can get work.

The issue with a lot of the work is that it's zero hours so unless you are living with your parents you can't afford to do it.

[vetran]

Long term doley will refuse to the jobs immigrants do.

Immigrants are willing to work in hotel kitchens, pick veg, clean offices, be a care worker etc.

The long term doley thinks all those jobs are beneath them.

you have no evidence of that other than your prejudices. Whilst I suspect a few are like that the great majority can do the math!


Youth unemployment rate is worst for 20 years, compared with overall figure | Society | The Guardian

You could be almost £1.50 an hour better off working. So you could stay in bed and claim benefit or get up and work in the 'informal economy'.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/yes-your...reduce-poverty

why would you work if that was your choice assuming you could find a job?

[MrMarkyMark]

Immigrants are willing to work in hotel kitchens, pick veg, clean offices, be a care worker etc.

Agreed, quite often this type of work is on the black, in any case.

Rates will be lower due to using immigrants, either because of the above, or, just the fact they will accept lower.
They will often share many to a property to make a job pay.

Whether people think this is a competitive / free market depends on the POV.

[SueEllen]

why would you think the availability of cheap well qualified imports doesn't affect businesses taking a chance with a long time doley? Of course we can dismiss them as lazy if they have no chance of getting a job.

Long term doley will refuse to the jobs immigrants do.

Immigrants are willing to work in hotel kitchens, pick veg, clean offices, be a care worker etc.

The long term doley thinks all those jobs are beneath them.

[rl4engc]

Govt. should be saying "We need x'000 nurses, y'000 IT consultants" etc. and in the short term ship workers in on 12 month Visas to plug the gap.

But long term they need to say to the termally workshy "OK we need x'000 nurses, y'000 IT consultants, choose which one you're gonna be trained up in, because from now on you have to be in Education or Training to qualify for your benefits".

Point is the skills gap can be filled with British homegrown 'talent', they just need a stick and carrot to get off their arses and life on benefits.

[vetran]

You mis-read him. He was saying immigrants mean existing English scroungers don't get trained up.

Which seems as absurd a comment but at least tear him apart on the right argument

why would you think the availability of cheap well qualified imports doesn't affect businesses taking a chance with a long time doley? Of course we can dismiss them as lazy if they have no chance of getting a job.

[d000hg]

Problem is for every skilled worker that's shipped in, there's one native lazy arse on benefits that doesn't become skilled when they're probably more than able to..

Your view is borne entirely out of prejudice. Immigrants aren't just skilled workers - it's your service industry staff as well. As a matter of public record, immigrants are less likely to be social spongers than native born British. But hey - don't let the facts get in the way of your rabid xenophobia.

You mis-read him. He was saying immigrants mean existing English scroungers don't get trained up.

Which seems as absurd a comment but at least tear him apart on the right argument

[NotAllThere]

The GDP calculation includes both private and government spending, so of course more immigration equals higher GDP. That's not necessarily a good thing though, because more government spending on schools, healthcare, policing, and, yes, welfare, means higher taxes for those of us not under or near the lower tax rate boundaries.

Could you repost your link to whatever showed the higher economic benefits of immigration? Seems to have got lost in the chaff.

http://www.cream-migration.org/files/FiscalEJ.pdf

[meridian]

immigrants overall have a positive effect on GDP. And as I've already said, I'm not a fan of unrestricted immigration - the information you have linked to is one of the reasons for that. Another is cultural impact.

The GDP calculation includes both private and government spending, so of course more immigration equals higher GDP. That's not necessarily a good thing though, because more government spending on schools, healthcare, policing, and, yes, welfare, means higher taxes for those of us not under or near the lower tax rate boundaries.

Could you repost your link to whatever showed the higher economic benefits of immigration? Seems to have got lost in the chaff.

[vetran]

My view is borne entirely out of prejudice. Whilst we pay benefits that keep people trapped on benefits we import cheap labour and then deride our home grown labour.

FTFY,

[NotAllThere]

Varies considerably based on country of origin:
Characteristics and Outcomes of Migrants in the UK Labour Market | The Migration Observatory

immigrants overall have a positive effect on GDP. And as I've already said, I'm not a fan of unrestricted immigration - the information you have linked to is one of the reasons for that. Another is cultural impact.

[LondonManc]

Your view is borne entirely out of prejudice. Immigrants aren't just skilled workers - it's your service industry staff as well. As a matter of public record, immigrants are less likely to be social spongers than native born British. But hey - don't let the facts get in the way of your rabid xenophobia.

Varies considerably based on country of origin:
Characteristics and Outcomes of Migrants in the UK Labour Market | The Migration Observatory