Reply to: UK net migration hits record high

[DodgyAgent]

I have my suspicions that a lot of the negativity about immigration and the broader multicultarism debate, especially via a vis the muslim community, is to a large part a result of classic divide and rule tactics and that there are more things that unite us than divide us.

I am going to take it upon myself to take a detour into Easton, Bristol on the way home from work some time soon and just mingle with some of the groups of people I see loitering on street corners and see if I can strike up a bit of rapport just by being natural and making a bit of small talk such as you would by the water cooler with a colleague at work.

Perhaps something along the lines of

"Hey, how's it going?"...

"Isn't it a lovely day?"...

"See the Bake Off last night?"...

"Mega pork pie!"...

And I genuinely think I'll be surprised at the response and I think it will confirm that there are more cultural reference points in common among the disparate ethnic groups that make up our society than certain sections of the media would have you believe.

An IT contractor walking up to people in the street to talk to them ?

Anyway just to back up my point that EU migrants are largely overqualified studenty types rather than Engineers, scientists or "skills shortage" professionals there are many reports that cover this:

One is - a bit long http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/...our_market.pdf

From an individual perspective, freedom of movement represents a cherished principle, as 60% of Europeans think that people moving within the EU is a good thing for European integration.
.
However, moving country is also a huge undertaking for the individual. Recent research clearly indicated that CEE mobile workers experience over qualification in the EU15, leading to the phenomenon of ‘down-skilling’ and possible brain waste. Some countries report significant gaps between the educational attainment levels of EU migrant workers and the occupations they work in. This is confirmed by Holland et al , who analysed the skill structure of EU10 nationals working in the EU15 and compared this to the occupations in which they work. The study shows that while they are generally better educated than the average level of the host population, they are over represented in low-skilled and low-pay occupations and sectors such as construction, manufacturing, hotels and restaurants, and agriculture. For instance, while the share of highly-skilled Bulgarians and Romanians working in the EU15 is 21% and 12% respectively, the share of Bulgarian and Romanian migrants working in occupations requiring high skill levels amounts to only 11% and 2%66
.
Such evidence suggests two things. First, it reveals that destination countries are failing to tap into the full potential of migrants’ skills, leading to a waste of human capital in Europe. Second, it shows that CEE mobile workers tend to accept lower-skilled jobs than they would have accepted in their home country and are likely to be more vulnerable than nationals of their host country. Although there is no evidence showing that they constitute an exploited labour force on Western European
labour markets, some studies have shown that CEE mobile workers work longer hours and face discrimination over salaries. Furthermore, their enrollment in trade unions is limited, showing that they might be unaware of their rights and less protected than the native population

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[Martin Scroatman]

I have my suspicions that a lot of the negativity about immigration and the broader multicultarism debate, especially via a vis the muslim community, is to a large part a result of classic divide and rule tactics and that there are more things that unite us than divide us.

I am going to take it upon myself to take a detour into Easton, Bristol on the way home from work some time soon and just mingle with some of the groups of people I see loitering on street corners and see if I can strike up a bit of rapport just by being natural and making a bit of small talk such as you would by the water cooler with a colleague at work.

Perhaps something along the lines of

"Hey, how's it going?"...

"Isn't it a lovely day?"...

"See the Bake Off last night?"...

"Mega pork pie!"...

And I genuinely think I'll be surprised at the response and I think it will confirm that there are more cultural reference points in common among the disparate ethnic groups that make up our society than certain sections of the media would have you believe.

[vetran]

Yeah. Them complicated coffee machines are difficult to drive.

Yeah tried that, couldn't stand the daily grind...

[Zero Liability]

Try to become a solicitor or a barrister ...

Or to find a capitalist based system as opposed to a cronyist one.

[xoggoth]

The Poles etc are usually good hard working people but we actually do not need them. You and your open borders "friends" seem to ignore this. Furthermore I am sure that by allowing 50 million migrants to come to the UK they will increase the turn over of the economy and maybe once the chaos of the supporting infrastructure gets taken care of they may well improve the GDP overall. After all if people are prepared to migrate to another country chances are they will have a pretty good work ethic.

Quite agree. Boosting the GDP is only a good thing if we do not similarly increase the population. If the increased GDP is shared among a similarly increased number of people how is anyone better off? The biggest "net benefit" of migrants I have ever seen is 22bn. That's about 3% of government expenditure, in return for a 13% increase in population. Makes no sense whatever.

[xoggoth]

If you are inflexible in location, and some British young people are for no good reason, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

If you are inflexible in the type of work you will do to learn some work skills, and some British young people are due to attitudes their parents and peers have, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

Don't disagree but one of the realities that cannot be mentioned without cries of racism is that a disproportionate number of the lowest skilled young people and those least willing to move elsewhere to find jobs are the ethnic minorities that past immigration has given us. We are repeating the same mistakes now. Some groups are/have been/will be useful like Indians, Chinese, Poles, Hungarians but the idea that unskilled Roma, Sudanese, Eritreans, Somalis or those from some parts of South Asia are going to be a benefit to us is an absurd PC fiction, there are figures out there for those who care to check.

Not against highly skilled migration but that is not what we getting. Too many with poor education and no special abilities have absurd expectations and, when those do not become reality, we get resentment, extremism, crime and riots. Not just the UK, look at France or Sweden.

If we want to end "racism" we need proper controls on quality and number.

[DodgyAgent]

Also while I don't have a problem with migrants I've never said the UK needs unfettered immigration.

.

Not any stage have you said anything to deny this.

[DodgyAgent]

So whats the difference between a Romanian or Hungarian and a Syrian or Gambian person who travels to the UK looking for a better life? As far as I can see, one is legally allowed to however in the eyes of many people they are all one and the same

It does not matter what they want it is what we want that counts.

[DodgyAgent]

Actually they mainly go there for a better life than they would have in Britain. Now what about all the migrants from EU countries coming to Britain ,I presume you can't complain about then as, . In fact most migrants leave their countries for a better life than they have in their homeland...

I have stated that EU migrants coming to the UK are working in low skills jobs even though many have University degrees. This is having the effect of releasing pressure on wages and "giving up" on young people in the UK. The Poles etc are usually good hard working people but we actually do not need them. You and your open borders "friends" seem to ignore this. Furthermore I am sure that by allowing 50 million migrants to come to the UK they will increase the turn over of the economy and maybe once the chaos of the supporting infrastructure gets taken care of they may well improve the GDP overall. After all if people are prepared to migrate to another country chances are they will have a pretty good work ethic.

In terms of overall quality there may be a case of swapping our own feckless shirking workforce by force. In the case of what is actually happening our migration policies seem to be downgrading overall standards: http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...rd-high-9.html

Lord Green of Deddington, chairman of MigrationWatch, said: “There has long been a level of emigration by highly skilled British workers, many of whom return later.
“Highly skilled immigrants help to compensate for this but they are not the problem.
“The problem is the mass immigration of low skilled migrants and particularly now from within the EU.”

[darmstadt]

The NHS is kept running by Immigrants, I am currently contracted in the NHS and every department is dependant on it's immigrant labour force, they are currently actively seeking nurses in the Philippines, from the top consultants down the whole operation is run by immigrants.

You can thank Enoch Powell for that:

Whilst he was Health minister, he encouraged a large number of Commonwealth immigrants into the understaffed National Health Service. Prior to this, many non-white immigrants were often obliged to take the jobs that no one else wanted (e.g. street cleansing, night-shift assembly production lines), often paid considerably less than their white counterparts. Powell was vehemently opposed by the Trade Union movement (who feared that immigrants were being used by capitalists to keep wages low by artificially increasing competition for jobs), but there is no doubt that in easing non-white immigrants into what was considered a prestigious form of career, he boosted the confidence of the immigrant population and helped lay the foundations of a future immigrant-descended permanent Afro-Caribbean and Asian middle class in Britain.

Bloody right wingers getting migrants in to do the jobs that the indigenous population won't and then moaning about all the bloody foreigners

[minestrone]

Why because you have a reading comprehension problem? Or is the amount of people you mix with from a small selection of society?

You have always struck me as someone who wants to believe they are clever but continually make an arse trying to prove it.

Let's look at what you said...

"Most EU citizens also try to move back to their home country at some point in their lives."

Can you not see the numerous flaws in that statement?

[AtW]

There is no quota for the number of jobs in capitalist based systems. I know this comes as a shock for you but that's the underlying principle. The more wealthy a country is the more jobs that will be created.

Try to become a solicitor or a barrister ...

[SueEllen]

Bulltulip

Why because you have a reading comprehension problem? Or is the amount of people you mix with from a small selection of society?

[minestrone]

So just because you are British and on the dole in Hull you have a divine right to be given a job in Birmingham?

No one has a divine right to be given work.

You need to be either in the right location or be willing to move to that location (and as an employer I may help you depending how difficult it is for me to get staff) and most importantly apply for the role.

If you are inflexible in location, and some British young people are for no good reason, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

If you are inflexible in the type of work you will do to learn some work skills, and some British young people are due to attitudes their parents and peers have, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

Also while I don't have a problem with migrants I've never said the UK needs unfettered immigration.

If an economy is successful in comparison to others then it's not surprising the number of migrants increases.

Most migrants are young people and will take on different jobs in what they have trained in because they don't have the state or anyone to fall back on in this country. Most EU citizens also try to move back to their home country at some point in their lives.

Bulltulip

[SueEllen]

Exactly, you don't care where they come from, and if it means that other taxpayers need to pay for the dole for a Brit because someone else took that low-paying service job of yours, you don't care because you're making money.

You still haven't explained why the UK needs unfettered immigration.

So just because you are British and on the dole in Hull you have a divine right to be given a job in Birmingham?

No one has a divine right to be given work.

You need to be either in the right location or be willing to move to that location (and as an employer I may help you depending how difficult it is for me to get staff) and most importantly apply for the role.

If you are inflexible in location, and some British young people are for no good reason, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

If you are inflexible in the type of work you will do to learn some work skills, and some British young people are due to attitudes their parents and peers have, then don't be surprised if you can't get a job.

Also while I don't have a problem with migrants I've never said the UK needs unfettered immigration.

If an economy is successful in comparison to others then it's not surprising the number of migrants increases.

Most migrants are young people and will take on different jobs in what they have trained in because they don't have the state or anyone to fall back on in this country. Most EU citizens also try to move back to their home country at some point in their lives.