Reply to: Contracting UK not viable. Where then?

[NotAllThere]

Aren't people overreacting a bit?

Yes. There's plenty of brolly contractors who are entirely unaffected by the dividend change.

Everything in Australia is trying to kill you.

Including the trees.

Some of the sheep are reportedly harmless.

When I started contracting, travel weren't usually claimable (Unless it was to an overseas location) - it was decided by your local tax office. But we had dividend income to avoid ERNIC (and as a consequence, EENIC). The later 90's were great because travel became claimable, and we got the dividend uplift. 2000 became a bit crap with IR35 - mainly the uncertainty, but that settled down as it became clear that it could be voluntary with a little effort.

I went contracting for the independence and uplift in income. Not so I could claim expenses and pay less tax as a percentage overall. If the net effect of this legislation is that those whose fees make it marginal over permie go into permiedom, I can't see that is a bad thing for the rest of us.

[cojak]

I mean, just where do you go? I have a place in Spain but there's no market in that location really.

What are viable alternatives to contracting in the UK, now that the government have effectively killed the industry overnight? Where can you go, where your income (either contract or perm) is sufficient to give you an equal or greater standard of living?

Oh, we'll get over it, we always do.

The budget threads aren't even in the top 10 this morning...

[flamel]

Just partaking in the UK national sport. Whining. Before doing nothing.

When you all arrive in Australia they will say they knew the English plane had arrived as when they turned the engines off, people could still hear the whining

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Syria.

Talking of which - what's the dividend taxation policy of ISIS?

Apparently it's tax free once you have lost your head.

[flamel]

It's only out at consultation at the moment - it might not come in...

The dodgy useless ouanqueres at HMRC will override the "consultation" and get their way - they always do and the consultation exercise is merely for show. Therefore it WILL come in.

[seeourbee]

What are the benefits of incorporating in Ireland. 12% corporation tax ?
Does anyone have knowledge of the Double Tax treatment on Ireland dividends received by UK resident ?
(or Irish VAT, NI etc)

[shaunbhoy]

I don't think people are being unrealistic by expecting the worst.

ftfy

[Zero Liability]

Aren't people overreacting a bit?

TBH it was not a great budget for contractors, with many "surprises", so it's understandable. Nonetheless, I do think it will be best to wait and see first where they're planning on taking IR35, as this is anyone's guess at the moment, given how the budget will have completely changed the cost-benefit calculations associated with it from the Treasury's POV. I don't think people are being unreasonable by expecting the worst.

[BolshieBastard]

I once went from working in London, to working in Yeadon (north of Bradford), to working in Cambridge, all in the space of eight months. There are lots of similar periods of working at various extremes of the country on my CV. Are you seriously saying I should move to London for six months, then move to Yorkshire for two months, then move to Cambridge for three months, though it turns into eight? And keep on moving every time I get a gig in a different place that's too far to reasonably commute each day from wherever home happens to have ended up being on the previous gig?

And what happens when I come to the end of a gig? Do I put the house on the market straight away, or wait until I know where I'm moving to?

What about a gig that suddenly gets its project funding pulled, meaning what was intended to be six months turns into one month; but luckily, I'm able to get another gig almost straight away. Only problem: the gig that was cancelled was near Coventry, and the new gig is in Bristol. I won't even have finished unpacking before I'm putting the house on the market again.

And if I have children, they'd better not get attached to their school, because they'll probably be there for a shorter time than the kids from the traveller encampment on the ring road roundabout.

And how exactly am I supposed to provide a decent service to clients when I'm constantly dealing with the stress of moving house?

I've hardly ever had two gigs in a row that involved setting off from home in the same direction on Monday morning, never mind living in the same area.

Idiot.

d000hg is a right dick. Im surprised people engage him and his stupid suggestions. If the DC&S with regards T&S comes in, it will have a greater impact on contractors than the divvie tax IMHO.

[shaunbhoy]

Wrong assumption. My rate is pretty exceptional.

It's the constant erosion of contracting - IR35, S660, Dividend tax, offshoring, visas from outside the EU, expenses, etc. that is threatening the very viability of contracting. I reckon there will be no contracting industry to speak of within 5 years.

I reckon you are talking bollox.

HTH

[shaunbhoy]

Aren't people overreacting a bit?

Exactly this. Drama Queen alert!!

[DimPrawn]

It seems to me that it is quite simple:
First you check the Automatic UK tests: if you satisfy any of these then HMRC considers you UK resident. IMHO if you do satisfy any of those then you have not in fact moved abroad.
If not, then you check the Automatic Overseas tests: if you satisfy any of these then HMRC considers you non-UK resident. Likewise if you do not satisfy any of those, have you really moved abroad?

What you can not do easily is just get work abroad, keep your links with the UK, come back often, yet claim to have "moved abroad".

The swines!

[expat]

And if you think leaving HMR&C behind is as simple as moving abroad, think again:

http://www.pwc.com/en_JG/jg/publicat...dence-test.pdf

It seems to me that it is quite simple:
First you check the Automatic UK tests: if you satisfy any of these then HMRC considers you UK resident. IMHO if you do satisfy any of those then you have not in fact moved abroad.
If not, then you check the Automatic Overseas tests: if you satisfy any of these then HMRC considers you non-UK resident. Likewise if you do not satisfy any of those, have you really moved abroad?

What you can not do easily is just get work abroad, keep your links with the UK, come back often, yet claim to have "moved abroad".

[expat]

I think that TykeMerc, NickFitz, and I, and probably a lot of other contractors, are in essentially the same position as far as expenses are concerned: the amount of necessary expenses is large, and they cannot be avoided by moving house because there is no single place to move to.

A couple of £k more tax in a year is not a reason to throw any toys out of the pram, but the potential disallowing of tax relief on £1000-£2000+ costs every month would certainly be a reason to review very seriously the game plan: in my case any significant variant on the plan would probably not involve being in the UK at all.

In my case that is because I am fluent in a couple of other languages and experienced in the work styles of several countries, and I rather like working around Europe anyway. I would find it easier to give up Britain than to give up Europe. In the case of younger people, there might be a lot of thought given to giving up the UK/Europe contracting life in favour of a permie but better lifestyle farther afield. If I were young I would emigrate. No question.

[NickFitz]

I don't know if I can do both, I only tried one.

Thinking you're entitled to a lifestyle where you live in nice hotels, and earn an integer multiple of the salary of someone else doing the same job locally, is brainwashed.

Move where the work is.

I once went from working in London, to working in Yeadon (north of Bradford), to working in Cambridge, all in the space of eight months. There are lots of similar periods of working at various extremes of the country on my CV. Are you seriously saying I should move to London for six months, then move to Yorkshire for two months, then move to Cambridge for three months, though it turns into eight? And keep on moving every time I get a gig in a different place that's too far to reasonably commute each day from wherever home happens to have ended up being on the previous gig?

And what happens when I come to the end of a gig? Do I put the house on the market straight away, or wait until I know where I'm moving to?

What about a gig that suddenly gets its project funding pulled, meaning what was intended to be six months turns into one month; but luckily, I'm able to get another gig almost straight away. Only problem: the gig that was cancelled was near Coventry, and the new gig is in Bristol. I won't even have finished unpacking before I'm putting the house on the market again.

And if I have children, they'd better not get attached to their school, because they'll probably be there for a shorter time than the kids from the traveller encampment on the ring road roundabout.

And how exactly am I supposed to provide a decent service to clients when I'm constantly dealing with the stress of moving house?

I've hardly ever had two gigs in a row that involved setting off from home in the same direction on Monday morning, never mind living in the same area.

Idiot.