Reply to: Some feggin sense, at last!

[vetran]

As happens to me recently car a is the the outside lane doing 80, crests a hill and there is an armchair in the middle of the lane. Ends up driving along the gravel in the central reservation while nearly needing fresh pants.

did you pick it up for AtW?

[TheLordDave]

As happens to me recently car a is the the outside lane doing 80, crests a hill and there is an armchair in the middle of the lane. Ends up driving along the gravel in the central reservation while nearly needing fresh pants.

[darmstadt]

I suspect undertaking is actually legal. The rules in the Highway Code are only law if they have the words ‘must’ or ‘must not' then they also include references to the corresponding legislation. So looking at rule 268, it doesn't have these words or the corresponding legislation:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Whereas rule 269 does:

Hard shoulder. You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for overtaking. In areas where an Active Traffic Management (ATM) Scheme is in force, the hard shoulder may be used as a running lane. You will know when you can use this because a speed limit sign will be shown above all open lanes, including the hard shoulder. A red cross or blank sign above the hard shoulder means that you MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or breakdown. Emergency refuge areas have also been built into these areas for use in cases of emergency or breakdown.
Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 5A & 9, MT(S)R regs 4 & 8

[xoggoth]

Car A is driving down a street. They run over a cyclist and kill them. Its the car driver's fault. Do they get

A CBE and free lunch at Mc Donalds for a year.

[RetSet]

It'd be a good test case:

Car A driving along at 70 in lane one, Car B doing 55 in lane 2 (or 3,4,5).
Car A continues at 70 in lane 1, optionally flashing main beam to alert driver of car B of their presence.
Car B manouvers into lane 1, causing Car B to rear end into it.

I'd argue Car B at fault (Careless driving) as they failed to check in their wing mirror that it was safe to effect the manouevre.

Top tip.

If you're going to maintain progress in lane 1 always make sure the hard shoulder is clear in case Car B does something ****witted.

That's happened to me just once. Said ****wit pretty much shat himself when I went on the horn.

[BrilloPad]

I would suggest a huge fine, like over £300, and perhaps 2 hrs community service.

You are a :nazi: . Ever thought of voting UKIP?

[DimPrawn]

Car A is driving down a street. They run over a cyclist or pedestrian and kill them. Its the car driver's fault. Do they get 3 points or 4 points on their licence?

I would suggest a huge fine, like over £300, and perhaps 2 hrs community service.

[BrilloPad]

Car A is driving down a street. They run over a cyclist or pedestrian and kill them. Its the car driver's fault. Do they get 3 points or 4 points on their licence?

[DimPrawn]

It'd be a good test case:

Car A driving along at 70 in lane one, Car B doing 55 in lane 2 (or 3,4,5).
Car A continues at 70 in lane 1, optionally flashing main beam to alert driver of car B of their presence.
Car B manouvers into lane 1, causing Car B to rear end into it.

I'd argue Car B at fault (Careless driving) as they failed to check in their wing mirror that it was safe to effect the manouevre.

More like, car A is in lane 2 doing 70, and car B is an Audi with an Audi driver. Car B is doing 105mph and accelerates to 140 mph with main beam on, swerves into lane 1 when it is 15 cm from the rear of Car A, then sounds horn whilst undertaking and making hand gesture from drivers window.



Car A then arrives only 45 minutes late to meet with the the other recruitment agent attendees, at the annual recruitment agents conference in Slough.

[rl4engc]

(but may still fall under Careless Driving or a civil offence if an accident occurs and you are at fault or contribute).
IANAL....

It'd be a good test case:

Car A driving along at 70 in lane one, Car B doing 55 in lane 2 (or 3,4,5).
Car A continues at 70 in lane 1, optionally flashing main beam to alert driver of car B of their presence.
Car B manouvers into lane 1, causing Car B to rear end into it.

I'd argue Car B at fault (Careless driving) as they failed to check in their wing mirror that it was safe to effect the manouevre.

[meridian]

The Highway Code is a little ambiguous on what "overtaking" actually is.

Section 163 mentions moving out, passing, and then moving back, which is not what happens if you are simply staying in your lane and going faster than another lane.

Section 267 again mentions "the lane that you will be joining", implying that you will be changing lane to move past the vehicle in front.

Section 268, though, says "do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on the left to overtake", which implies that you don't need to change lanes for it to be "undertaking".

The ambiguity is compounded by the HC clearly stating in the introduction that criminal offence rules are identified by the use of the words MUST/MUST NOT, and those specific words are absent from s268, so it looks like undertaking is not a criminal offence (but may still fall under Careless Driving or a civil offence if an accident occurs and you are at fault or contribute).

IANAL....

[I just need to test it]

Replies embedded

Is it overtaking if your lane is clear and you simply carry on?

yes


What if the traffic to the right of you slows down? Are you meant to brake even though there's nobody in front of you?
no :-)

Round Heathrow the M25 has 5 lanes, which means the middle laners go into lane 4. If you're in lane 1, then that means there's two entirely empty lanes between you and them. Is passing them with two empty lanes between you really more dangerous than you swerving across 4 lanes to go round them on the right?

i agree with you. I'd do it and hope I wasn't being observed by a cop who needed to up his quota

[VectraMan]

Weird. Section 267 of the Highway Code says "overtake only on the right".

Is it overtaking if your lane is clear and you simply carry on?

What if the traffic to the right of you slows down? Are you meant to brake even though there's nobody in front of you?

Round Heathrow the M25 has 5 lanes, which means the middle laners go into lane 4. If you're in lane 1, then that means there's two entirely empty lanes between you and them. Is passing them with two empty lanes between you really more dangerous than you swerving across 4 lanes to go round them on the right?

[vetran]

hardly terrible from his side.

Driver who was first in UK convicted of being a 'middle lane hogger' speaks out | Daily Mail Online

Ian Stephens, 42, was fined £500 and ordered to pay £440 costs after he was pulled over in his Citroen Berlingo.

Police say he caused six other vehicles to swerve while missing several opportunities to use the inside lane.

Painter and decorator Ian Stephens, who has become the first person in the UK to be convicted of 'hogging' the middle lane of a motorway.

Painter and decorator Ian Stephens, who has become the first person in the UK to be convicted of 'hogging' the middle lane of a motorway.

But the self-employed painter and decorator said he was stunned by the ‘extortionate’ fine.

‘The motorway was absolutely packed with cars, lorries and vans and everyone was going 60mph,’ he said.

‘I was simply one of dozens of vehicles using the middle lane because we were all going up a hill and overtaking some slow-moving lorries.

[Paddy]

I loathe all the bloody 4x4 drivers who go on/over the line on narrow country lanes round here 'cos they don't want to scratch their bodywork on the hedges and expect everybody else to.

PS Loathe slow drivers, lorries, buses, pedestrians, bikes.... everybody really. Why don't you all get the f* off MY roads??? If I was dictator I'd put 99% of the population in extermination camps.

During the winter I was driving up a hill with ice and snow on the road. 4x4 comes over the brow and instead of stopping drives down in the middle of the road causing me to drive off in to a ditch.