Reply to: Those peace loving White Supremacists are at it again

[minestrone]

America's crime stats are pretty bonkers and they certainly have a bit of an issue historically with race relations but sitting here on keyboards banging away about what they have to do to fix after reading some stuff on the internet it is laughable. As clearly witnessed by the OP claiming this was a Christian that shot the place up before the title of the thread was changed.

[minestrone]

Yes, run by very bad religious people:-

The Queen = Head of the C of E, Or a least her forefathers murdered on mass.
T Blair, "God talks to me"
Bush, "God told me to invade Iraq.
and on and on...

He never said that. Neither did he say the French have no word for entrepreneur.

Neither did thatcher say "a man riding a bus at 26 may count himself a failure"

It's not the problem that people believe these things, it is that they form strong opinions from them and then go on to try and form other peoples opinions based on them.

[NotAllThere]

...
The Queen = Head of the C of E, Or a least her forefathers murdered on mass. ...

Well, they were Catholic. But that really goes with SO's point about atheists and the USSR- the Catholics weren't persecuted by the crown particularly because of their beliefs, but rather their loyalty was seen to be to the pope first.

[Paddy]

Governments are also run by very bad people.

Yes, run by very bad religious people:-

The Queen = Head of the C of E, Or a least her forefathers murdered on mass.
T Blair, "God talks to me"
Bush, "God told me to invade Iraq.
and on and on...

[BrilloPad]

FTFY

you know most of the religions are run by people, many are very bad people.

Governments are also run by very bad people.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Jeffrey Dahmer was an atheist who said he killed because he didn't believe there was a God to hold him accountable, but there is no evidence he actually targeted religious people for their religion.

Mao Zedong certainly applies, he considered religion an enemy of the state and brutally targeted religious people simply because of their religion, intellectuals, etc, to try to impose his philosophies.

Joseph Stalin destroyed thousands of churches and had more than 100,000 priests and nuns shot. He also was an atheist who went on a "jihad" to impose his views on hundreds of millions.

Kim Jong Il. Pol Pot.

It's ludicrous to suggest atheists have their hands clean or haven't used force and violence in the name of their beliefs.

There's a difference between killing in the name of atheism, and killing while being an atheist.
And what went on in the USSR is not killing in the name of atheism - it was removing what they perceived as a threat to their goals. It just ahppens to be that one of those threats was theism. Fuzzy line there I guess. And beside the point as I dont;t hink this had anything to do with religion, did it?


But anyway... was this guy on SSRIs too? They've been wel knows to cause psychotic tendencies and rage for a long time now. And pretty much every school mass shooter was on them.

[unixman]

It's distasteful to attack religion in this case because the victims where all in a Church expressing their religious beliefs which they are free to do in the US, the perp killed for racial reasons nothing to do with religion.

Yes and I would go further. USA media now in self-flagellation mode, claiming that this crime proves the entire country is racist. It proves nothing of the sort, in my view. The shooter was very evil as were his accomplices, such as his parents who furnished the weapon. He was responsible for his actions, nobody forced his hand. He acted with great deliberation and aforethought. The US population as a whole is not to blame for this crime. South Carolina governor calling for removal of confederate flag now. Not necessary but I'm no expert on US politics.

Oh and as for Christianity, the families have publicly forgiven the mass-murderer.

[vetran]

Exactly. Moreover, religion is used to create fear by bad people no God could love that if a person displeases their god, they will go to hell when they die hence why they will commit atrocities out of fear of going to hell or reward of going to heaven.

FTFY

you know most of the religions are run by people, many are very bad people.

[BrilloPad]

Ferguson police willing to offer Dylann Roof a front-line role

[WordIsBond]

Easy solution ban religion, and send any religious reprobates off to another plantet where they can be left to kill each other in peace (or pieces)

If Jesus wanted him to kill these people they should surely accept it and be happy with it?

For those wanting to play "blame the victim" here, it's not hard to find out just how terrible these religious people were.

NBC News:

Roof told police that he "almost didn't go through with it because everyone was so nice to him,"

Listen to the victims' family statements:

"I forgive you, and have mercy on your soul."

"I forgive you and my family forgive you, but we would like you to take this opportunity to repent."

"We welcomed you with open arms.... Every fibre in my body hurts.... May God have mercy on you."

"For me, I'm a work in progress, and I acknowledge that I'm very angry.... We have no room for hate, and so we have to forgive."

Yeah, a religion that influences people in that way is terrible and should be banned.

But of course, those who want to blame religion because people in a church were shot up by a lunatic probably don't have the integrity to click through, listen to what these "religious reprobates" say, and reconsider their own hatred.

[xoggoth]

My own position on religion is I am an Atheist in regards to the main religions but Agnostic on some kind of higher being. This doesn't mean I disregard all the wisdom in the bible such as Jesus sermons etc who I view as a revolutionary philosopher, or the benefits to society Churches bring.

Tend to agree, a creator is as probably as good a theory as any, and there may well be some purpose behind everything, it is just the details of the established religions that make no sense whatever. Nothing wrong with many general religious moral principles either, you don't have to be religious to agree that the last 7 commandments make sense or even that the Islamic prohibition of alcohol is quite sensible.

The problem is when religious dogma imposes irrational specifics as to exactly how society should be governed or attempts to override individual rights. In society the greater good and individuals freedoms have to be balanced sensibly. There is no place for following irrational bollux from supposedly religious texts.

Mind you, religion is not unique in irrationality, many political beliefs are just as barmy. Why do intelligent educated people go on believing in communism when every communist society has been a disaster? The problem is not religion but human nature.

[Unix]

It's distasteful to attack religion in this case because the victims where all in a Church expressing their religious beliefs which they are free to do in the US, the perp killed for racial reasons nothing to do with religion.

My own position on religion is I am an Atheist in regards to the main religions but Agnostic on some kind of higher being. This doesn't mean I disregard all the wisdom in the bible such as Jesus sermons etc who I view as a revolutionary philosopher, or the benefits to society Churches bring.

[Platypus]

I understand the oldest murder victim was 87. An 87 year old woman, saying her prayers.

So what?

[NotAllThere]

What's that got to do with what I said?

Nothing at all. Paddy's understanding of Christianity or even Catholic Christianity seems to be based more on irrational ill-informed prejudice than anything substantive. It's a shame really, because if he put the effort in there's plenty of well-thought out material for bashing us Christians with.

[unixman]

If my Muslim colleagues are anything to go by, Islam is more about fasting and praying 5 times a day