Reply to: Can you be a virtuous nonce?

[ZARDOZ]

If you have a picture of a bank robbery, it doesn't make you a bank robber. But if you have a picture of a child being abused it makes you a child abuser. Which is odd in a way.

I don't think it's odd at all

Firstly I doubt anyone would maturbate to the picture of a Bank Robbery.

Secondly the picture of the child has been produced as an integral part of the crime, these pictures have to be sort out/ shared amoung the groups of abusers. That's not the case with a photo of a Bank Robbery, in fact it could also help solve the crime.

Thirdly Try using that argument at the Police Station or in front of a jury.

[BrilloPad]

Presumably "enthusiasts" would abuse the child regardless, but perhaps some are effectively unscrupulous business men using it as an oppurtunity to make money without getting any kind of kick out of it themselves.

If you have a picture of a bank robbery, it doesn't make you a bank robber. But if you have a picture of a child being abused it makes you a child abuser. Which is odd in a way.

If I got off on bank robbery and it encouraged others to commit bank robberies to sell me pictures then it would become an offence.

Which makes me wonder why there are so many nonces out there.

[vetran]

Presumably "enthusiasts" would abuse the child regardless, but perhaps some are effectively unscrupulous business men using it as an oppurtunity to make money without getting any kind of kick out of it themselves.

If you have a picture of a bank robbery, it doesn't make you a bank robber. But if you have a picture of a child being abused it makes you a child abuser. Which is odd in a way.

not really, one offence is the act of robbing the other its the act of owning.

[OwlHoot]

I am fairly sure I've read that in many cases, the abuse is believed to have been carried out and filmed for the purposes of distribution. I need to find the source of that to back up my claim, I know.

In many cases being admitted to secret forums and suchlike where kiddy porn is distributed is conditional on providing fresh images.

I suppose that is partly to increase the amount in circulation, for the benefit of the other members, but also as a kind of proof that the applicant is genuine and committed.

[VectraMan]

But are people being harmed to create those images, or were they being harmed for the fun of it at the time and the pictures were a 'memento'? i.e. would those children have been harmed regardless? Is this an area people are making money from or is it all 'enthusiasts sharing photos'?

Presumably "enthusiasts" would abuse the child regardless, but perhaps some are effectively unscrupulous business men using it as an oppurtunity to make money without getting any kind of kick out of it themselves.

If you have a picture of a bank robbery, it doesn't make you a bank robber. But if you have a picture of a child being abused it makes you a child abuser. Which is odd in a way.

[MaryPoppins]

But are people being harmed to create those images, or were they being harmed for the fun of it at the time and the pictures were a 'memento'? i.e. would those children have been harmed regardless? Is this an area people are making money from or is it all 'enthusiasts sharing photos'?

I would damn sure prefer pedos looked at disgusting porn to sate their urges than went looking to do it for real, but whether it works that way I have no idea.

I am fairly sure I've read that in many cases, the abuse is believed to have been carried out and filmed for the purposes of distribution. I need to find the source of that to back up my claim, I know.

[d000hg]

But someone, somewhere is hurting someone to ensure these images can be viewed. [I'm not saying that you dispute that]. It's scary to think how much of it is out there.

A guy I went to college with was put on the register for downloading illegal images, and was of the very firm opinion that because 'he' hadn't hurt anyone, he had been treated unjustly.

But are people being harmed to create those images, or were they being harmed for the fun of it at the time and the pictures were a 'memento'? i.e. would those children have been harmed regardless? Is this an area people are making money from or is it all 'enthusiasts sharing photos'?

I would damn sure prefer pedos looked at disgusting porn to sate their urges than went looking to do it for real, but whether it works that way I have no idea.

[MaryPoppins]

so perhaps it's similar in that many might indulge their fantasy by looking at pictures....all the time telling themselves they're not *really* hurting anyone.

But someone, somewhere is hurting someone to ensure these images can be viewed. [I'm not saying that you dispute that]. It's scary to think how much of it is out there.

A guy I went to college with was put on the register for downloading illegal images, and was of the very firm opinion that because 'he' hadn't hurt anyone, he had been treated unjustly.

[VectraMan]

The police officer seemed to think it was a massive and growing problem as he put it "we haven't even got in the boat to look at the tip of the Iceberg", especially since the availability of the internet is maybe bringing out those who suppressed their urges. It's quite possible that some of this (1 in 4) includes online grooming here no real life contact is made, but that is still something to be concerned about especially when you hear recently that they have already identified more people than they have time to prosecute.

Indeed but that does support the hypothesis that many if not most are "virtuous" and would never actually go through with harming a child. Most people would never put a brick through HMV's window, but the anonymity of the internet means millions steal music, so perhaps it's similar in that many might indulge their fantasy by looking at pictures or even internet chatting to someone calling themselves Beckie 13 (who may just as likely be some other perv who likes pretending to be a 13 year old girl) all the time telling themselves they're not *really* hurting anyone.

[ZARDOZ]

Thats my take on it too. I noted that recently there are not enough police to prosecute all those downloading underage pron.

On the counter side I first thought that Jimmy Savile was going to be people sullying his name when he could not defend himself. Then I thought it would be a few cases. I was proved to be badly wrong.

Notice Harmen and her links to PIE was featuring again. After her refusal to appologise you have to wonder what her (and her husband's) real views on the subject are, and what they got up to in the 70s. I also notice, that so far, all the Elm Guest house rumours are proving to be true.

[BrilloPad]

I liked to believe it's not as bad as they were making out. But it really wouldn't surprise me to find out there were more sickos out there than one might expect.

Thats my take on it too. I noted that recently there are not enough police to prosecute all those downloading underage pron.

On the counter side I first thought that Jimmy Savile was going to be people sullying his name when he could not defend himself. Then I thought it would be a few cases. I was proved to be badly wrong.

[ZARDOZ]

I liked to believe it's not as bad as they were making out. But it really wouldn't surprise me to find out there were more sickos out there than one might expect.

[OwlHoot]

The police officer seemed to think it was a massive and growing problem as he put it "we haven't even got in the boat to look at the tip of the Iceberg",

Twenty years ago many social workers, and a few police officers, were convinced ritual satanic abuse was rampant throughout the UK.

But despite tens of millions of pounds being spent investigating this, and several prosecutions, and literally dozens of Government reports, no convincing evidence of this type of abuse was ever found nor a single person ever convicted.

In fact I think some of the kids drawn into the investigations later sued the witchfinde^D concerned officials.

[mudskipper]

She didn't say reported cases.

Maybe I'm just naive, but if 1 in 6 children (and 1 in 4 girls) have been abused then we probably all know several people that were. The other slightly unpallettable conclusion is that if abuse is that widespread, then the vast majority of victims must have been able to shrug it off without being emotionally and psychologically traumatised. And that's not a good message.

I know several people who have been victims.

I've told the story of the guy who groped and kissed me and my sister when we were walking back from Brownies. 'Assault' seems a strong term, but I guess that's what it was. He was certainly a sick individual. It would certainly be included in the stats had I been asked. It didn't leave either of us traumatised for more than a few days. I suspect most kids who have similar one off relatively minor experiences when they're too young to really understand what's going on aren't affected long term.

[tractor]

...

Apparently sleeping with Brillo turns straight women gay keeps your parts shiny and new.

FTFY