Reply to: Has anybody here furloughed themselves yet?

[PerfectStorm]

I get that but without this going on we would have been stuck with going inside at some point. People have done it for ages. Taking a gig through a brolly is hardly the end of the world of scraping the barrel. It's something thats going to become the norm for us. So this idea we do something that's normal for us yet claim covid support as well.. You get me..

If there were such gigs available, I'd probably take one and if the rate wasn't derisory, I wouldn't claim

[northernladuk]

As has been explained - this is an extraordinary situation where learning on your 1% money that you normally reserve for a dry spell won't be enough.

We'll still be losing money hand over fist, the CJRS just means there's a slightly smaller... fist. That and the mortgage holiday and payment deferrals are absolutely for us.

I get that but without this going on we would have been stuck with going inside at some point. People have done it for ages. Taking a gig through a brolly is hardly the end of the world of scraping the barrel. It's something thats going to become the norm for us. So this idea we do something that's normal for us yet claim covid support as well.. You get me..

[PerfectStorm]

I get that there is no reason you can't from the wording but it's just a blatent piss take at the end of the day really. Claiming covid help when you've got a gig earning in the top 1% of population is just... Mehhhh

As has been explained - this is an extraordinary situation where learning on your 1% money that you normally reserve for a dry spell won't be enough.

We'll still be losing money hand over fist, the CJRS just means there's a slightly smaller... fist. That and the mortgage holiday and payment deferrals are absolutely for us.

[jamed]

I get that there is no reason you can't from the wording but it's just a blatent piss take at the end of the day really. Claiming covid help when you've got a gig earning in the top 1% of population is just... Mehhhh

Well depends on the salary. £50k and above is around 10% and £160k is around 1%.

And perm and umbrella will most likely be paying a lot less than your LtdCo gig was.

The fact is if the government says you're eligible then why look a gift horse in the mouth.

A mate of mine was on a £120k perm salary at a law firm. They have now furloughed him at £2,500 a month and will then give him 3 months notice payment once the furlough period is over as he has been asked to resign. So the whole scheme is basically a piss take really.

[Paralytic]

Have to agree, it's that sort of thinking that makes the general population keep thinking we are all tax dodging, money-grabbing a-holes

I agree too, and it's unfair. I am, at most, only 2 of those.

[oilboil]

I get that there is no reason you can't from the wording but it's just a blatent piss take at the end of the day really. Claiming covid help when you've got a gig earning in the top 1% of population is just... Mehhhh

Have to agree, it's that sort of thinking that makes the general population keep thinking we are all tax dodging, money-grabbing a-holes

[northernladuk]

As I am not furloughed, and working - I haven't had chance to read the whole thread. So apologies if this has been identified already but:

I see no reason that you can't furlough yourself as a Director, and then go and get a gig using an umbrella company. Would be an option for anyone looking at inside gigs.

I get that there is no reason you can't from the wording but it's just a blatent piss take at the end of the day really. Claiming covid help when you've got a gig earning in the top 1% of population is just... Mehhhh

[Andy Hallett]

As I am not furloughed, and working - I haven't had chance to read the whole thread. So apologies if this has been identified already but:

I see no reason that you can't furlough yourself as a Director, and then go and get a gig using an umbrella company. Would be an option for anyone looking at inside gigs.

[jamed]

I'm currently furloughed and my approach is basically looking for any new role whether it's perm, inside or outside 35. In this market you can't be too fussy with your options.

600 a month is not enough to live on so if the only roles are outside IR35 then I'm obviously going to apply for them as I need more money. But to not furlough myself and lose out on 600 a month just because I applied for one outside IR35 role in the month and didn't get it is ridiculous.

Common sense to me is to furlough myself up until the point I actually sign an outside IR35 contract, if I'm lucky enough that is. Maybe the best case is to try to get a perm job and keep furloughing myself as it's technically allowed.

[Maslins]

Can't disagree with any of that, especially that my point was an "excellent" one

In practice I'm sure the government are going to be very flexible on this given the circumstances, and potential political blow back if they end up aggressively chasing the wrong cases. Also the amounts involved for a typical contractor company are going to be trivial in the grand scheme of things. Eg perhaps a couple of months at 80% of £719, so a little over £1k per company. It's not something worth their while fighting. Still, accountants are not going to want to rely on goodwill of the government/them turning a blind eye to things. I appreciate that can be interpreted as stuffy accountants playing it safe.

[PerfectStorm]

If someone is claiming job seekers allowance, they need to be able to demonstrate they're seeking a job. Yes it's in the name, but some posters above are seeing it as effectively the same thing as being furloughed. Surely you want someone who isn't working to be working, rather than living off state handouts? Yes I'd agree of course you do.

Do remember however that being furloughed is legally very different.

Forget about contractors for a moment. Imagine you had a permanent job as a salesperson for big corporate X. Your job is to win paid work for corporate X. If you get furloughed, and your employer tried to justify you should still continue to do your job in full whilst they claim the furlough amount as all you're doing is looking for business, I imagine most people would agree that was BS.

Bring this back to contractors. For IR35 reasons, contractors are often trying to argue that they're not just disguised employees, they're running a real business. Where that's the case, then looking for paying customers is part of running a business, and is still work.

Personally therefore I think any accountants saying you shouldn't even be looking for work if you want to claim furlough are correct. IMHO arguing otherwise is an own goal from an IR35 perspective.

I appreciate your points. However, the sales person's role ends with doing the sales job. Nothing happens for them after that, apart from selling more work.

To counter your (excellent) point, as part of furlough my company will be receiving money from the government. I'll have to pay that money out from the company while I'm furloughed or I won't get it. So I'll be logging into the company's bank, making payments, keeping financial records. That doesn't make me Accounts Payable and doesn't stop me from being furloughed because I'm technically doing a supporting role that allows my main role to happen.

[Maslins]

Accountants probably being a bit OTT there. Even the government sites don't say you can't *look* for business

Think about it, what would the government prefer - you looking for work so you can come off furlough WHEN you get some, or sat suckling on the state's boob forever?

If someone is claiming job seekers allowance, they need to be able to demonstrate they're seeking a job. Yes it's in the name, but some posters above are seeing it as effectively the same thing as being furloughed. Surely you want someone who isn't working to be working, rather than living off state handouts? Yes I'd agree of course you do.

Do remember however that being furloughed is legally very different.

Forget about contractors for a moment. Imagine you had a permanent job as a salesperson for big corporate X. Your job is to win paid work for corporate X. If you get furloughed, and your employer tried to justify you should still continue to do your job in full whilst they claim the furlough amount as all you're doing is looking for business, I imagine most people would agree that was BS.

Bring this back to contractors. For IR35 reasons, contractors are often trying to argue that they're not just disguised employees, they're running a real business. Where that's the case, then looking for paying customers is part of running a business, and is still work.

Personally therefore I think any accountants saying you shouldn't even be looking for work if you want to claim furlough are correct. IMHO arguing otherwise is an own goal from an IR35 perspective.

[hairymouse]

My accountant has said I would be fine to look for permie jobs, not contracts though.

It seems clear that if I am furloughed I can look for permanent jobs. It seems clear to me that I can also look for contracts that are inside IR35 and won't be invoiced from my company. More of a gray area are contracts where the IR35 status is unknown.

I think I am going to hold off doing anything for now. I can always make a claim for this time period later, after I know what kind of role I eventually get. If it's permie or inside contract then I don't see much risk for claiming. I guess the worst case scenario is they could ask for their £2k back.

[MPwannadecentincome]

It is not the time for 'warchest for a month or two of quiet market', IMO.

I have claimed too.. for the same reason.

[PerfectStorm]

Accountants probably being a bit OTT there. Even the government sites don't say you can't *look* for business

Think about it, what would the government prefer - you looking for work so you can come off furlough WHEN you get some, or sat suckling on the state's boob forever?

People are again getting tied up in wonderful amounts of theory that don't match reality.