Reply to: Umbrella companies and profit sharing bonus

[ladymuck]

I honestly have no idea how the scheme will work in your case, sorry. I'm not convinced anyone really knows until claims start being submitted.

[Luciezilla]

I missed the "true" salary comment. Your true salary is what is being declared as your taxable income. If it's less than you're taking home then you are likely to be disappointed.

And eek is right on another point, and I'm sorry if it wasn't made explicit to you. You cannot do any work in a furloughed role and expect the benefit to be paid.

I am completely aware that you cannot work in a furloughed role.

All my salary is being declared as taxable income as far as I am aware - it's how the umbrella company pays out to its employees that has caused a problem. They are dividing things up into a 'basic rate' (minimum wage) and then anything above that is called 'bonus' even though it isn't an actual bonus - it's just that my wage varies month to month depending how many shifts I work etc.

[ladymuck]

I missed the "true" salary comment. Your true salary is what is being declared as your taxable income. If it's less than you're taking home then you are likely to be disappointed.

And eek is right on another point, and I'm sorry if it wasn't made explicit to you. You cannot do any work in a furloughed role and expect the benefit to be paid.

[eek]

The last paragraph is the part we simply don't know.

In theory, I'd say yes, but we've yet to hear from any umbrella as to whether it is something (a) available to them and (b) they are willing to offer.

Well we do know as the documentation says only base salary is included and fees, bonuses / commission.. are explicitly excluded see

Claim for your employee’s wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

What we don't know is how your umbrella company will handle that and whether they will seek to provide more than 80% of the minimum wage.

And yes I've just read up on that as I think I'm going to have to discuss it with a council department my wife knows who is going to have to make some awkward decisions in the next few weeks.

But what the documentation does say is that you have to be 100% furloughed, if you work 1 hour out of 5 days you don't qualify.

[Luciezilla]

The last paragraph is the part we simply don't know.

In theory, I'd say yes, but we've yet to hear from any umbrella as to whether it is something (a) available to them and (b) they are willing to offer.

Thanks I will just have to wait and hope for the best I think.

[ladymuck]

Yes, I obviously haven't been furloughed yet as I am still working minimal hours - but that's what I'm saying. My role exists - I would normally be working 35hrs a week - but the work doesn't exist right now. Vet clinics have been told to be open for emergencies only, so where there is usually work for two vets - now there is barely work for one as we aren't allowed to operate under the same workload as before. My current employer can only now afford to give me 8 hours a week (for now! she may not be able to give me any hours in the next week or two) - that's all she can afford to pay me, and the hours of the clinic have been dramatically cut. It would make much more sense for me to be furloughed so that she doesn't have to pay me at all, and 80% of my wage is much better than 25% of my wage which is what I am currently getting.

Other vets I know have been furloughed from their clinics as there isn't the work to sustain the number of vets that usually work there. My situation is no different than that, from what I can see, except that I am not permanently employed - just a locum.

Anyway as before - my main question is about whether if I get furloughed I can expect to receive 80% of my true salary and not just minimum wage, due to the way the umbrella company pays me, which I gather is a common enough practice even among legitimate umbrella companies so surely someone will have to know the answer to this question in the next few weeks.

The last paragraph is the part we simply don't know.

In theory, I'd say yes, but we've yet to hear from any umbrella as to whether it is something (a) available to them and (b) they are willing to offer.

[Luciezilla]

I'm not sure that's how furlough is defined by HMRC. Do check the small print on the HMRC website.

My understanding is that the role exists but the work doesn't so you are essentially mothballed until things pick up and so will not be doing any work at all. Doing some work isn't the same thing

Yes, I obviously haven't been furloughed yet as I am still working minimal hours - but that's what I'm saying. My role exists - I would normally be working 35hrs a week - but the work doesn't exist right now. Vet clinics have been told to be open for emergencies only, so where there is usually work for two vets - now there is barely work for one as we aren't allowed to operate under the same workload as before. My current employer can only now afford to give me 8 hours a week (for now! she may not be able to give me any hours in the next week or two) - that's all she can afford to pay me, and the hours of the clinic have been dramatically cut. It would make much more sense for me to be furloughed so that she doesn't have to pay me at all, and 80% of my wage is much better than 25% of my wage which is what I am currently getting.

Other vets I know have been furloughed from their clinics as there isn't the work to sustain the number of vets that usually work there. My situation is no different than that, from what I can see, except that I am not permanently employed - just a locum.

Anyway as before - my main question is about whether if I get furloughed I can expect to receive 80% of my true salary and not just minimum wage, due to the way the umbrella company pays me, which I gather is a common enough practice even among legitimate umbrella companies so surely someone will have to know the answer to this question in the next few weeks.

[ladymuck]

I'm not sure that's how furlough is defined by HMRC. Do check the small print on the HMRC website.

My understanding is that the role exists but the work doesn't so you are essentially mothballed until things pick up and so will not be doing any work at all. Doing some work isn't the same thing

[Luciezilla]

Well you've said you've had your hours cut, not stopped. So to stop working just so you claim full relief would be voluntary and would tax evasion/fraud wouldn't it?

Many employers are furloughing staff voluntarily - ie they cannot support paying them/give them the hours they need so staff are choosing to be furloughed. I don't see how that's any different to my situation? If my current employer cannot give me more than 25% of my usual hours and I can't find work elsewhere why wouldn't I choose to be furloughed? I don't see how that's fraud?

The current clinic I've been spending most of my time has offered to furlough some of the staff as they are currently operating on a skeleton staff only and can't afford to pay everyone. I would take it if I was a permanent employee but obviously I'm not - I'm a locum. So in order to be furloughed I have to get the umbrella company to do it, apparently.

[northernladuk]

My main concern right now really is whether I can be furloughed by my umbrella company (which most things I have read seem to imply should be possible) AND whether I will be eligible for 80% of my true income or if I will be limited to just 80% of the minimum wage due to the way my umbrella company does things. Any clarification on this?

Well you've said you've had your hours cut, not stopped. So to stop working just so you claim full relief would be voluntary and would tax evasion/fraud wouldn't it?

[GhostofTarbera]

It's not clear at the moment but I think, and am by no means an expert, that your clients need to furlough you due to the virus which in turn should allow the umbrella to make the claim on your behalf. Whether any/all umbrellas will do that is another matter entirely.

Eeeeerrr I think it is clear

The umbrella won’t fourlough him as they might never see say money back from GOV and god if they do it will be on his salary at very best


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[ladymuck]

My main concern right now really is whether I can be furloughed by my umbrella company (which most things I have read seem to imply should be possible) AND whether I will be eligible for 80% of my true income or if I will be limited to just 80% of the minimum wage due to the way my umbrella company does things. Any clarification on this?

It's not clear at the moment but I think, and am by no means an expert, that your clients need to furlough you due to the virus which in turn should allow the umbrella to make the claim on your behalf. Whether any/all umbrellas will do that is another matter entirely.

[Luciezilla]

The NMW plus bonus appears to be the standard way. Explained here by Lisa. Other threads discussing it are available.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...imum-wage.html

My main concern right now really is whether I can be furloughed by my umbrella company (which most things I have read seem to imply should be possible) AND whether I will be eligible for 80% of my true income or if I will be limited to just 80% of the minimum wage due to the way my umbrella company does things. Any clarification on this?

[Lance]

Sooo - I can be relieved I'm not involved in anything dodgy (HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF) BUT I'm still not eligible to be furloughed for 80% of my *true* income if I have no work coming in?

aplogies for putting the frighterners on. i4 does look legit.
Just the wording of your original post set alarm bells ringing.

worth a look at other threads on here as some umbrellas are better than others. And some are dodgy.
Caveat emptor.

[northernladuk]

The NMW plus bonus appears to be the standard way. Explained here by Lisa. Other threads discussing it are available.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...imum-wage.html