Reply to: New to London Contracts!

[xing]

This is crazy. I'm looking on job sites now for ASP.NET mvc developers, and they're all around 300-400 mark...

Where are the good paying contracts?? Do they not get advertised?! Do you guys find that the market is a little slow at the moment?

I find LinkedIn is much better at sourcing higher rate roles. Just setup your profile and wait for messages to come in.

[BlasterBates]

The contractor market is booming.......

in the Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria

A lot of big companies are now using Eastern european companies as their contracting resources

There are still contracting jobs out there, it's just a bit more competitive.

[Bluenose]

This is crazy. I'm looking on job sites now for ASP.NET mvc developers, and they're all around 300-400 mark...

Where are the good paying contracts?? Do they not get advertised?! Do you guys find that the market is a little slow at the moment?

The answer is in the posts above.

I am not a developer but I the UK contract market for dev's has been decimated by offshoring.

I used to flick through pages of developer C++ and Java contracts, some of them £750-850pd in the more exotic end of front office. I can't remember the last time I saw one although, I don't doubt that they come up.

These days the higher end contract jobs tend to be in Architecture or Management only with a sprinkling of rare specialist stuff e.g. Murex, Calypso etc.

[wonderboy]

This is crazy. I'm looking on job sites now for ASP.NET mvc developers, and they're all around 300-400 mark...

Where are the good paying contracts?? Do they not get advertised?! Do you guys find that the market is a little slow at the moment?

Dude.

[maxedvolume]

This is crazy. I'm looking on job sites now for ASP.NET mvc developers, and they're all around 300-400 mark...

Where are the good paying contracts?? Do they not get advertised?! Do you guys find that the market is a little slow at the moment?

[MyUserName]

I have agencies offering 300/day at the moment - i have a feeling they're trying to maximise their margins. Too low for London?

I got an email offering 250-300 for C++ in London today. Whether it is too low for you is your call but it is way too low for me.

[wonderboy]

I have agencies offering 300/day at the moment - i have a feeling they're trying to maximise their margins. Too low for London?

Either that or the client is too small to be worth your time. My first rate was 320 in Glasgow(!) with same skill set . If you are confident in your skills in C#/ASP.NET simply state that is too low and you are looking for 450 (if that is what you want). You can then negotiate down from there if you find out you need the gig.

If after a few days (depending on ur situation) that approach is not working, by all means lower your rate. But for decent (i.e. you have a decent CV and track record) web dev C# devs market rate is 450 in London (even in Greater London). City/Canary Wharf offers more headroom.

[maxedvolume]

I have agencies offering 300/day at the moment - i have a feeling they're trying to maximise their margins. Too low for London?

[wonderboy]

Treat jobserve like a speed dating agency, you will only bag one in a 100 and most of the adverts are fake. The ones that look too good to be true 9.9/10 are.

That is an exaggeration, but it is true in spirit for the skill set of the OP.

Re what do you say to "what was your previous rate?".

Simple, answer a different question: "I am looking for around xxx/day". This avoids a lie and answers the question really being asked. If they persist, then they are playing hard-ball and your response will depend on how desperate you are.

A good rate is subjective. For me 450/day would be too low for London, but if I were a 25 year old, or if my war chest had run out, or if it was an easy gig I might take it.

Years of experience is somewhat irrelevant - it is largely "do you have the skills and fit required, and "how many people like you are available in London right now" which is largely orthogonal to "years of experience".

Finally, most contractors in London with your skill set will be on 400-450/day. Remember that the clients will be paying around 500/day for you including the agency margin. Offshore consultancies in India and China will bill 150-200/day (hence the decimation of the native contracting industry!). Onshore consultancies will bill 750-900/day for kids with less experience and the same skill set; proving the point that your rate comes down to more than skill set and experience.

Plain ol' .NET web development has essentially been commoditised by the large consultancies (on and offshore) making it, IME, tough to negotiate more than 450/day for your skill at present.

THAT SAID: I left the .NET web development space, having gained significant relevant experience and with a large amount of hard-won expertise to offer, principally because clients were generally unwilling to go above 450/day in London - so if the industry were to be more open to higher rates, they may find higher quality people applying to their roles, but the market is a complex place (as demonstrated by the wide gap in rates mentioned above) and my experience shows that clients hold out until the very last possible moment (even going so far as to repeatedly employ low-cost sub-standard people causing successive project failures) on rates before finally conceding they need to pay more.

[TheFaQQer]

Also what do you say to recruiters that ask you what rate you're on currently?

Market rate.

[northernladuk]

Treat jobserve like a speed dating agency, you will only bag one in a 100 and most of the adverts are fake. The ones that look too good to be true 9.9/10 are.

I just don't agree with this at all. I must have managed to get well over 80% of the roles I have applied for over the years and haven't found a true fishing/fake one yet. Maybe it's more prevalent in a different are of IT but I don't believe for one minute 9.9/10 roles are fake.

So many people do comment on it so there must be some truth to it but the numbers quoted above just look bollocks to me. Am wondering if the one in a 100 is more to do with the ability of Bluenose to get a gig rather than a problem with jobserve.

Ignore this advice and just keep plugging on IMO. Target your CV, only apply for ones that you would seriously take and ones that your skills fit exactly. If you go for a standard CV scatter gun approach applying for everything and anything that you 'might' be able to do or have no intention of accepting then your approach is all wrong.

[northernladuk]

Also what do you say to recruiters that ask you what rate you're on currently? They don't need to know this info do they? Seems to me that they're trying to work out their margin by under cutting me to the client on the contract they're trying to sell me.

You are playing a game with sales people that work on commission and do this day in day out. Of course they are going to use every trick in the book to increase their take home. It's your job to do exactly the same for yourself so you have to play the agent at his own game. If you are daft enough to say something too low you will of course get fleeced which many new contractors often do.

The best way to play agents is to understand them. If you can't and have to ask a forum they are going to eat you alive.

They could of course just be making sure they are not wasting your time. If you say you want £500 and the gig is for £200 max then they could be trying to save themselves and you some time and ending the discussion there.

Start high and negotiate down.

[maxedvolume]

Also what do you say to recruiters that ask you what rate you're on currently? They don't need to know this info do they? Seems to me that they're trying to work out their margin by under cutting me to the client on the contract they're trying to sell me.

[TheFaQQer]

Treat jobserve like a speed dating agency, you will only bag one in a 100 and most of the adverts are fake. The ones that look too good to be true 9.9/10 are.

I don't have a record of the number of applications I've ever made through Jobserve, but just short of 50% of my contracts have been found that way.

[Bluenose]

As a first timer, is it reasonable to say start at around £300 and try for £400 next contract, and work my way unto £500 for the 3rd contract maybe? Or is it realistic to expect the 'market rate' on first contract?

Are these 450-500/day contracts only by words of mouth? feels to me job boards are there to lure in fresh contractors...

any thoughts?

Judging by some of the ghetto rates I have been offered these past three weeks while I have been actively looking for work, I am also surprised at some of the rates stated around these parts so - don't be fooled as some people here have 20 years experience, maybe some with more.

That said, I found new work straight away and got a 10% rate increase, a sure sign of a healthy market after 4 years of very tough conditions.

I would start applying at the upper end of the rate spectrum and see if you get calls back from agents, you will soon find your place in the market, everyone has one.

Treat jobserve like a speed dating agency, you will only bag one in a 100 and most of the adverts are fake. The ones that look too good to be true 9.9/10 are.