Reply to: Client wants me to go permie

[MyUserName]

After all, I'm happy with my rate and they're happy with the work, so what's the problem? Why rock the boat?

The problem here was that they wanted to the skills and knowledge kept in house rather than with a contractor. The fact that I could leave even if I was a permie did not factor in.

[ChimpMaster]

You could try selling the virtues of them keeping you on as a contractor - it's probably cheaper to them anyway in your case because at a contract value of 85k they would have to pay you a base something like < 50k to match their TCO for you (... and they will O you!)

I get asked to go permie every so often and my response is that I am more motivated and committed to the client as a contractor; as a permie I simply would not be happy and would be looking for a new job in a few months. I sell the fact that as a contractor I am committed to them for however long they need me, be it 2 months or 2 years.

So Mr. Client if you need me and want me to stay, contract me for as long as you need... and I tell you what, you won't even have to put in a notice period in our contract - but I'll give you notice if needed, so that way you won't lose out.

After all, I'm happy with my rate and they're happy with the work, so what's the problem? Why rock the boat?

[lukemg]

Very interested in what you get offered.

Standard response for future reference is -
'PERMIE ??? Are you f**king joking ? If I didn't know I was out of here in 3 months I would top myself now...'

Rarely gets asked again !

[TheDandy]

As a previous poster said, it appears you are ill-informed about the costs incurred for companies hiring employees. Just so you're perhaps a little clearer

• National Insurance
• Pension
• Sick pay
• Holiday pay
• Training
• Bonus
• Benefits

Don't forget statutory redundancy payment.

[d000hg]

The client has been willing to pay me my rate for a year and a half, they think I am doing a great job and want to go permie. Why would I then do the same work for half the income?

Why should the company pay 1.5x as much for the same work, because that's what they'll end up doing... your interest is what you get to take home, their interest is how much they have to pay, these are very different things.

[DigitalUser]

I bet you pay the sticker price when you buy a car? You are obviously lacking in confidence and not very good at negotiating.

If you go in with a defeated loser attitude you are going to get average results.

As a previous poster said, it appears you are ill-informed about the costs incurred for companies hiring employees. Just so you're perhaps a little clearer

• National Insurance
• Pension
• Sick pay
• Holiday pay
• Training
• Bonus
• Benefits

[Taita]

Hi,

Clientco wants me to go permie, I like working there and I get to WFH a lot, so I am considering it. I am not sure how I go about working out salary to ask for, I would like something equivalent to what they are paying me as a contractor, which works out 80-85k which seems high for a very experienced .NET developer. I would be willing to take 10k off as its permie but still seems high 70k, however they have been willing to pay me that rate so far so not sure how to approach it.

Don't you think the starting point is what they pay permies doing the same job? If no comparison ask away but as somebody else said.....dream on if you think they are going to pay a developer on any scale greater than they pay the managers and, in the real world, £70k + benefits is high for an IT generalist with no additional managerial responsibilities.

[MyUserName]

Hi,

Clientco wants me to go permie, I like working there and I get to WFH a lot, so I am considering it. I am not sure how I go about working out salary to ask for, I would like something equivalent to what they are paying me as a contractor, which works out 80-85k which seems high for a very experienced .NET developer. I would be willing to take 10k off as its permie but still seems high 70k, however they have been willing to pay me that rate so far so not sure how to approach it.

The amount they pay a contractor is pretty much whatever day rate they pay the agency (or you if you are direct).

When they pay an permie there are many costs in addition to the salary that they offer you. They will also not be paying a premium for a short term disposal asset.

Hence the amount they will pay for a permie (including costs hidden to that permie) is normally less than what they will pay for a contractor. Hence the take home the permie gets will be less than what a contractor would get.

By all means try it and see where you go but you risk coming across as somewhat ill informed. A better alternative might be to research how much developers of your experience and skills get paid, add 20% and negotiate from there?

[CloudWalker]

Tell them: LOOK! I want half a curly-wurly and a packet of love
hearts, and that's me final offer!!

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I bet you pay the sticker price when you buy a car? You are obviously lacking in confidence and not very good at negotiating.

If you go in with a defeated loser attitude you are going to get average results.

Which company is going to pay a developer more than it pays it's senior managers? I guess if you have the true contractor mindset then you will give it a go anyway as there is nothing to lose when going from contractor to permie. Go for it, knock yourself out.

[Unix]

because when you go permie there are a lot of additional costs to the company. Are you even aware what it means to be a permie or a contractor?

I bet you pay the sticker price when you buy a car? You are obviously lacking in confidence and not very good at negotiating.

If you go in with a defeated loser attitude you are going to get average results.

[Unix]

My experience is roughly 500 per day -> 80k, 400 -> 60K. That is pretty rough but I would say that would be the best you can hope for.

If your daily rate is 400 I really can't see you getting 80K.

The company has overheads on your salary and a contractor often has travelling expenses to fork out.

Nevertheless point out your net take home and take your negotiations from there. It's up to them to make an attractive offer. The fact they've asked puts you in a good position.

A valid starting point is telling what you earn and you want to keep that. Now you're probably are not going to get it, particularly if you're outside IR35, but let them justify their offer.

I think this is a good approach, I know my monthly net so will take this to them as a starting point.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

The client has been willing to pay me my rate for a year and a half, they think I am doing a great job and want to go permie. Why would I then do the same work for half the income? I don't mind taking a reduction of say 10% I think that is only fair.

because when you go permie there are a lot of additional costs to the company. Are you even aware what it means to be a permie or a contractor?

[Unix]

The client has been willing to pay me my rate for a year and a half, they think I am doing a great job and want to go permie. Why would I then do the same work for half the income? I don't mind taking a reduction of say 10% I think that is only fair.

[BlasterBates]

My experience is roughly 500 per day -> 80k, 400 -> 60K. That is pretty rough but I would say that would be the best you can hope for.

If your daily rate is 400 I really can't see you getting 80K.

The company has overheads on your salary and a contractor often has travelling expenses to fork out.

Nevertheless point out your net take home and take your negotiations from there. It's up to them to make an attractive offer. The fact they've asked puts you in a good position.

A valid starting point is telling what you earn and you want to keep that. Now you're probably are not going to get it, particularly if you're outside IR35, but let them justify their offer.