Reply to: Decision help alert - need different perspectives

[PerfectStorm]

Take the money (i.e. the day rate) - big corps are bollocks unless you're running them, and even then it's not fun. They're great to have on your CV when recruiters/companies can't 'read between the lines', but big names are exactly (and only) that.

[Taita]

Ha, just browsing through and realised I need to close this one off. I stayed contracting at that same company, where I still am now, but am about to leave.

Funny how it worked out.

Stayed contracting, they hired a person for that perm role they offered me. That person is now my manager, and is not nearly experienced enough for the position. She has 'managed' to piss lots of people off, and delegated absolutely everything that was given to her, out. It doesn't matter though because she is the perm hire and 'they' are standing by her.

But moreover...

The part of the clienco I am in, is about to completely change their business, and merge with another internal business. Already quite a few perms have been made redundant, with more to follow, and contractors will be next.

My contract is up end of December, and having had various discussions it isn't likely to be renewed this time, so I have started looking around.

I have had an offer with a smaller company, for 50 more per day and a more senior role, and I will probably accept. How things can change so quickly still leaves me astonished. If I did take that perm role, I am not so sure I would be entirely happy with the new direction or industry.

My conclusion: work is work no matter how you do it - contractor or perm. Things change, people move on, you get happy about stuff, you get angry about stuff, you get disappointed. It's all the same and it's all part of the job. Work will only make you truly happy if you find something you are deeply passionate about and love doing, something you live, think and breath. Otherwise, well.. it's work.

Oh dear but that's life...... more fodder for the novel you should be writing rather than causing minor distractions here!

[BolshieBastard]

I find it unbelievable people ask these type of questions on a forum. Should I, shouldnt I? Jesus, such indecision.

[Peter Loew]

So what transpired?

Ha, just browsing through and realised I need to close this one off. I stayed contracting at that same company, where I still am now, but am about to leave.

Funny how it worked out.

Stayed contracting, they hired a person for that perm role they offered me. That person is now my manager, and is not nearly experienced enough for the position. She has 'managed' to piss lots of people off, and delegated absolutely everything that was given to her, out. It doesn't matter though because she is the perm hire and 'they' are standing by her.

But moreover...

The part of the clienco I am in, is about to completely change their business, and merge with another internal business. Already quite a few perms have been made redundant, with more to follow, and contractors will be next.

My contract is up end of December, and having had various discussions it isn't likely to be renewed this time, so I have started looking around.

I have had an offer with a smaller company, for 50 more per day and a more senior role, and I will probably accept. How things can change so quickly still leaves me astonished. If I did take that perm role, I am not so sure I would be entirely happy with the new direction or industry.

My conclusion: work is work no matter how you do it - contractor or perm. Things change, people move on, you get happy about stuff, you get angry about stuff, you get disappointed. It's all the same and it's all part of the job. Work will only make you truly happy if you find something you are deeply passionate about and love doing, something you live, think and breath. Otherwise, well.. it's work.

[d000hg]

So what transpired?

[Ravello]

Based on your figures and Edison's, the £118k figure seems closer which is virtually identical to contracting "full time".

Bonus and pension are major factors in this analysis and I have no idea what is typical in high-up jobs.

I know in my case it was a lot closer to the bottom end of the scale, typically what I've seen in my line of work tends to be around 10-20% bonus.. I have no idea what skill set the OP has though, nor what's on offer beyond the basic salary.

If my offer had been up nearer to the range that Edison outlined I *might* have been persuaded

[MyUserName]

Blooooomberg ??

Got to interview 10 out of 11 before they told me the job required a Unix background and I could not do it!

[raphal]

the company is extremely difficult to penetrate from the outside and the interview process is absurdly difficult

Blooooomberg ??

[d000hg]

Based on your figures and Edison's, the £118k figure seems closer which is virtually identical to contracting "full time".

Bonus and pension are major factors in this analysis and I have no idea what is typical in high-up jobs.

[Ravello]

I said not MUCH less. You only have to be benched one month a year and it evens out, just about. Considering he said £550 is a very high rate for him, that suggests he would not be able to walk right into another £550 role.

At the bottom end of the permie-perks I outlined you could work 9 months a year for the same cash... I included 1 month out as 'holiday' in my original calculations, so an extra 2 months out would bring you down to about the same gross amount.

Depends if you want to consider those 3 months as holiday or bench time. Personally I tend not to take many days off at all whilst in contract then take holidays at the end of a contract, but my personal circumstances mean that is perfectly viable for me (i.e. no kids). I've also been reasonably lucky in that in 6-7 years contracting I've only had 1 month benched (out of contract when I didn't want to be).

For the OP I guess it depends on how many months per year he typically works as he states above he couldn't assume 220 working days.

[edison]

Wow, loads of good replies and surprisingly slightly leant towards the perm option.

Just to clarify some things though:

• I could live comfortably on 80k (4.5k per month), but what I meant was that I'd save a lot less than being on a day rate of around 550 (I don't have any debt or financial problems)
• 550 day rate is not unusually high for me, it's def on the upper scale right now, but I usually command 500 - 550 quite easily, but my current contract is less than that range so I meant in comparison to my current day rate
• You can't assume 220 days contract work per year. Looking back for me this just isn't realistic. I have typically worked around 9 month contracts in the last 3 years, and before that I had two that lasted around 1.2 years, which is the longest I've ever been in a contract. The bench time eats into my warchest and feels like it generally evens out compared to a perm salary
• Of course I originally got into contracting because of the cash flow, but at 35 years old I am starting to concern myself with my career a lot more. I care about what I am achieving as a professional a lot more than I did when I started out (or even than two years ago). Not saying you can't have a good career progression contracting (I have certainly had good breaks), but it's not usually how it works
• The holiday thing is an excellent point which I hadn't really considered yet. Good points there, I love taking time off, but this also means no income and you're back to the evening out with a perm salary again

I've stated my interest in going for the perm role, but also waiting for more info on the contract (brief, likely length, etc.). End of the day nothing is really permanent.

P

Hi,

My set of circumstances was broadly similar to yours but the other way round i.e. I made the move from an £80k salary job to contracting. Roles I go for are typically £550-£700/day.

One thing you haven't really mentioned is what your long term career and professional development aspirations are. You are also a bit younger than average for an £80k salary. Assuming you are at upper middle to senior level manager level, do you aspire to move to IT Leadership Team level? If so, then using this type of perm role is much more likely to help you on that path. You could always go back to contracting in 3-4 years time for leadership roles paying significantly more than your current day rate.

To add to the earlier comparisons of perm rewards v contracting, based on my experience of £70-80k salary in several large FTSE100 companies outside of FS, you could expect your non-salary package to be about 50-60% on top if it is a successful company with a share scheme included. Something like:

Bonus 15-35% (usually half again for 'high' performance)
Car £6-7k
Pension 10%+
Private medical/life insurance £2k

Depending on the industry, there may be a long string of other smaller benefits as well as lucrative share schemes (but only valuable if the company's shares do well in the long term!)

[d000hg]

If it's a senior-ish position you should be able to get decent perks all round, including holiday? 30 days isn't that unusual but I don't know what you consider a lot!

[Peter Loew]

Wow, loads of good replies and surprisingly slightly leant towards the perm option.

Just to clarify some things though:

• I could live comfortably on 80k (4.5k per month), but what I meant was that I'd save a lot less than being on a day rate of around 550 (I don't have any debt or financial problems)
• 550 day rate is not unusually high for me, it's def on the upper scale right now, but I usually command 500 - 550 quite easily, but my current contract is less than that range so I meant in comparison to my current day rate
• You can't assume 220 days contract work per year. Looking back for me this just isn't realistic. I have typically worked around 9 month contracts in the last 3 years, and before that I had two that lasted around 1.2 years, which is the longest I've ever been in a contract. The bench time eats into my warchest and feels like it generally evens out compared to a perm salary
• Of course I originally got into contracting because of the cash flow, but at 35 years old I am starting to concern myself with my career a lot more. I care about what I am achieving as a professional a lot more than I did when I started out (or even than two years ago). Not saying you can't have a good career progression contracting (I have certainly had good breaks), but it's not usually how it works
• The holiday thing is an excellent point which I hadn't really considered yet. Good points there, I love taking time off, but this also means no income and you're back to the evening out with a perm salary again

I've stated my interest in going for the perm role, but also waiting for more info on the contract (brief, likely length, etc.). End of the day nothing is really permanent.

P

[d000hg]

Wow! Unexpected level of "go-permie" votes for a contractor forum.

FWIW, I've just been through an almost identical decision (right down to the salary offer which was the same), though the company that was offering me were almost certainly not as well known and therefore perhaps less of an enticement from that perspective.

Personally I opted to remain as a contractor as I like the flexibility, enjoy the variety and similar to the OP would find £4.5k/month would allow me to save a lot less and watch my spending.

For those that commented that £550/day is not that much different

Assume 220 working days per year (allows for bank holidays and 5 weeks hols - equivalent to most permie roles), gives a gross income of £121k even if you assume that you pay the same amount of tax as the permie role (you shouldn't but for ease of calculations let's say you do).. Then compare to permie role:

£80k basic, 10% bonus, £6k car, 5% pension = £98k
£80k basic, 20% bonus, £6k car, 5% pension = £106k
£80k basic, 30% bonus, £10k car, 5% pension = £118k

So if the package comes with a whopping 30% bonus, and a £10k car allowance it's still less per annum. If it's closer to the 10% bonus and £6k car then it's £23k p.a. LESS - that's pretty much £2k/month difference (albeit before tax).

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of pros and cons on both sides of the coin and the OP should weigh up what's most important, but if it's purely a financial decision the figures are pretty stark!

I said not MUCH less. You only have to be benched one month a year and it evens out, just about. Considering he said £550 is a very high rate for him, that suggests he would not be able to walk right into another £550 role.

[ChimpMaster]

Wow! Unexpected level of "go-permie" votes for a contractor forum.

FWIW, I've just been through an almost identical decision (right down to the salary offer which was the same), though the company that was offering me were almost certainly not as well known and therefore perhaps less of an enticement from that perspective.

Personally I opted to remain as a contractor as I like the flexibility, enjoy the variety and similar to the OP would find £4.5k/month would allow me to save a lot less and watch my spending.

For those that commented that £550/day is not that much different

Assume 220 working days per year (allows for bank holidays and 5 weeks hols - equivalent to most permie roles), gives a gross income of £121k even if you assume that you pay the same amount of tax as the permie role (you shouldn't but for ease of calculations let's say you do).. Then compare to permie role:

£80k basic, 10% bonus, £6k car, 5% pension = £98k
£80k basic, 20% bonus, £6k car, 5% pension = £106k
£80k basic, 30% bonus, £10k car, 5% pension = £118k

So if the package comes with a whopping 30% bonus, and a £10k car allowance it's still less per annum. If it's closer to the 10% bonus and £6k car then it's £23k p.a. LESS - that's pretty much £2k/month difference (albeit before tax).

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of pros and cons on both sides of the coin and the OP should weigh up what's most important, but if it's purely a financial decision the figures are pretty stark!

I turned down a 4th interview (fourth! though the previous 3 were telephone interviews... HR/technical management/VP) for a permie job because eventually it struck me that the 90k salary would take some time to compensate the following 12 month's contract rate, after tax etc. And yes I was confident that the contract would last that long, which it has, and more.

Looking back, I still would have loved to have taken the role because it involved several weeks of training/up-skilling and the chance to get into new tech. My plan now is to ride out my contract, bank the money and then try to go for that permie job again. Oh how I could do with being forced to take 25 days' holiday every year!

I guess I have it too easy for now... well for the next few months anyway and then it's looking grim!