Reply to: A recruiter asks: 'What day rate are you looking for?'

[Damon]

When asked the question it is the basic of negotiation....he who names a price first is at the disadvantage but this doesn't mean you can't get an outcome you are happy with.

As per the last post I agree one should take it as both 'sides' are trying to 'win' so work with them.

My normal response is calculated by what I would accept with the location and short profile/chat with agent. That said I normally state it much higher than they expect and do not let them react to the number but assertively ask 'what is the client's budget?'. As most 1st/2nd level recruiters are not that experienced they answer the question 'honestly'.

I then go onto to say 'but I am always flexible if the role appeals to me' to keep the deal moving as long as we are not hundreds a day apart.

Better to keep yourself at the upper end. Sure you may get screened out sometimes but probably for the best.

There is a good saying 'You think it is expensive to get a real professional? Wait until you find out the cost of getting an amateur!"

[bless 'em all]

That's only half the story they're telling you.

What you don't know is that the agent may have 3 other candidates put forward for this role too.

The agent's commission is when a candidate is placed. If they put 4 candidates forward at £500, £450, £400, £350 and the client interviews them all and thinks the £350 guy is good enough for this work... the agency might try and push the £400 a bit more but would settle for placing the £350, particularly if there are other agencies out there. They won't bother with the £500 or £450 even if they're far better for the company.

In summary: in this kind of market agents only end up serving the cheaper candidates. They love showing off to client that someone who wanted £450 a week ago they've managed to persuade to take the job for £350.

They DON'T work for YOU !

Have you considered that the agent is aware of the maximum the client is willing/able to pay and is trying to fit the rate you quote to the rate available? If you're going in at £600 and the client's budget is £500 you're going to be discounted by the agent - if you going in at £550 maybe the agent figures you're in the ball park and can negotiate you down.

I've never felt agents have been working for me, but I don't think they're working against me either.

You seem to have a rather paranoid suspicion of agents in general don't you?

[cojak]

That's only half the story they're telling you.

What you don't know is that the agent may have 3 other candidates put forward for this role too.

The agent's commission is when a candidate is placed. If they put 4 candidates forward at £500, £450, £400, £350 and the client interviews them all and thinks the £350 guy is good enough for this work... the agency might try and push the £400 a bit more but would settle for placing the £350, particularly if there are other agencies out there. They won't bother with the £500 or £450 even if they're far better for the company.

In summary: in this kind of market agents only end up serving the cheaper candidates. They love showing off to client that someone who wanted £450 a week ago they've managed to persuade to take the job for £350.

They DON'T work for YOU !

So why do you quote £600 when you'd accept £475? How many contracts have you lost by your own admission?

[ITPRO2]

Show me the roles on any job site at £1000+/day - they don't exist or if they do it's by some other more direct means.

I knew one PM on 1200 a day in 2007, but he was strato-phenomonal in that he delivered dead hard stuff on time on budget, every time.

Very common for PM or senior engineering roles in the oil and gas industry. They would never be advertised though.

[SussexSeagull]

That's only half the story they're telling you.

What you don't know is that the agent may have 3 other candidates put forward for this role too.

The agent's commission is when a candidate is placed. If they put 4 candidates forward at £500, £450, £400, £350 and the client interviews them all and thinks the £350 guy is good enough for this work... the agency might try and push the £400 a bit more but would settle for placing the £350, particularly if there are other agencies out there. They won't bother with the £500 or £450 even if they're far better for the company.

In summary: in this kind of market agents only end up serving the cheaper candidates. They love showing off to client that someone who wanted £450 a week ago they've managed to persuade to take the job for £350.

They DON'T work for YOU !

I never thought they did but I am happy with my daily rate and there is more transparency than the normal setup.

Not the solution to the world's problem but a step in the right direction, IMHO.

[masonryan]

As per normal agent bring candidate (i.e. me) to client. They are on a percentage of my daily rate so there is no point them trying to beat me down. We both then invoice the client separately.

That's only half the story they're telling you.

What you don't know is that the agent may have 3 other candidates put forward for this role too.

The agent's commission is when a candidate is placed. If they put 4 candidates forward at £500, £450, £400, £350 and the client interviews them all and thinks the £350 guy is good enough for this work... the agency might try and push the £400 a bit more but would settle for placing the £350, particularly if there are other agencies out there. They won't bother with the £500 or £450 even if they're far better for the company.

In summary: in this kind of market agents only end up serving the cheaper candidates. They love showing off to client that someone who wanted £450 a week ago they've managed to persuade to take the job for £350.

They DON'T work for YOU !

[d000hg]

As per normal agent bring candidate (i.e. me) to client. They are on a percentage of my daily rate so there is no point them trying to beat me down. We both then invoice the client separately.

Yes there is, if they are not the sole supplier to the client.

[masonryan]

I'd work for £350/day locally or £475/day far away.

So now I tell agents my rates are £450/day locally and £600/day far away.

[MaryPoppins]

Show me the roles on any job site at £1000+/day - they don't exist or if they do it's by some other more direct means.

Of course they exist. But these types of senior roles are generally recruited for in a different way than the standard 'shove it on JobServe' manner.

[SussexSeagull]

What does that mean? And i mean the phrase "Open Contract", not tomfoolery

As per normal agent bring candidate (i.e. me) to client. They are on a percentage of my daily rate so there is no point them trying to beat me down. We both then invoice the client separately.

[kingcook]

My current engagement is Open Contract based which avoids a lot of this tomfoolery.

What does that mean? And i mean the phrase "Open Contract", not tomfoolery

[SussexSeagull]

My current engagement is Open Contract based which avoids a lot of this tomfoolery.

[DirtyDog]

Interested to hear how you respond to the following question 'What day rate are you looking for?' frequently posed by recruiters.

"As much as I can get - what's the budget for the role?"

"It depends, I'd need to know exactly what the role entails, location, who the client is and so forth. What's the budget for the role?"

"What kind of margin are you taking - what's the budget for the role?"

Note that there is a key phrase in each of those responses, which gets them to suggest a rate that you can then negotiate around

[Edinburgh BA]

I'd ask what they were offering. Nothing worse than being on the phone with someone for ten minutes for a £225 a day job. I usually just say market rate for my locality. They should know that, and they'll usually go on to say "well, they're offering £380 a day", which is pretty common for Lloyds, for example. If you need to travel though, then that might be more, but outwith London, you can pretty much forget fat day rates. It's a hirer's market just now, so you need to bear that in mind too.

[No2politics]

I give them a range so wide it is meaningless.