Reply to: 2 Offers - 1 Perm other Contract, what should I do?

[ChimpMaster]

Then again there may be the option of going perm with the client you are contracting for, if that option arises. This may be possible if you have contracted for some length of time with the same company, so they know your potential, and your knowledge is relevant to their company/industry.

[malvolio]

Perhaps - exccept I would point out I've been in Service Management since about 1982 and am probably one of the more experienced ITIL guys out there. Then again, I am very old, so that may change the picture...

I'm not saying it can't be done, but the reality is that you should not plan on it.

[lukemg]

Not sure I agree Malvol, especially for Service Management, I expect a track record of SDM roles (proper ones not pretend) would open doors into a permie job at a reasonable level (I am hoping so anyway !) as more companies go the outsourcing route and need teams to manage the contract.
For the pure techies, I agree this is a much harder jump, since they may not have the management credentials e.g. Team lead, section manager etc that the permie plodders have got through 'waiting in line long enough'.
I also think the lines are blurring and that relevant experience is the decider not whether you did it as contract or perm (used to be a very clear division)

[malvolio]

Only problem is that after 10 years as a freelance you probably won't have the option to go back on the treadmill. If you step out of a career-path full time role, you must do it on the assumption that you will then stay freelance. That way, you won't be disappointed...

[ChimpMaster]

The way I have seen it - in my so far very short contracting career - is that contracting is not a career move and should instead be seen as a chance to build up funds, pay off your mortgage etc etc.

It could take you 10 years to save in a permie role that you might be able to save in 5 years as a contractor -- because you have full control over your earnings, and how you wish to allocate the funds.

If I got 10 years contracting under my belt, I wouldn't give a rat's arse about a career in any firm.

After all, once you have a solid financial background, why would you want to worry about moving up the proverbial career ladder?

[malvolio]

Yes, but that's a different question - the OP was asking about options from the other end of the ladder.

In reality, despite any new happy-clappy legislation, if you're over 40 you won't get a real job any more unless you are established on the permanent career ladder in the same line of work. There are three senior roles advertised today in my home town that I could do standing on my head, but I wouldn't even get an interview, much less an offer, so I don't even bother applying any more.

You also need to be a bit careful in what you do. Most of the high-earning contractors are the ones who write code and stay in work for years at a time at moderate rates, not the whizzy senior execs who charge a fortune for half the year and nothing for the rest. I'm a specialist in Service Management and that's what I have to sell myself as. The 6 programming languages, 10 operating systems, 10 or so package implementations and years of project management in my permie history don't count for beans - people only read CV's up to three years ago.

[Francko]

Hmm, not very clear, was I...

At age 30 you go freelance. At age 30, the guy in the next desk stays permie. In 5 years time, as far as HR are concerned, you have done nothing and he has got five years more experience.

Right. But that's if you are below 35. Let's say you are 40 or plus. That is a time that is probably your last chance to progress your career if you already didn't. I would assume that once you are not a senior manager at the age of 40 you won't become one forever. Therefore it could be perhaps a better option just to go contracting as you will never reach the highest permie figures (at least, that's what I am trying to convince myself ). My only restraint is that if you have children or wife it's hard to be on peanuts for a few months, should another recession come, while a well paid permanent job is still not much below an average paid contract in the longer term(it's very hard to get a well paid contract, you definetely must be the right person at the right time), seeing it as an impartial view of someone not using dodgy tax schemes.

[BlasterBates]

It might be getting a bit more difficult.

market report

[malvolio]

Sorry Malvolio, what do you actually mean with that?

Hmm, not very clear, was I...

At age 30 you go freelance. At age 30, the guy in the next desk stays permie. In 5 years time, as far as HR are concerned, you have done nothing and he has got five years more experience.

Also, assuming neither one has any particualrly startling extra skills, one of the two is likely to be "someone who will jump ship when the market improves"...which one would you choose?

Remember, we're talking Human Remains here, not people who know what they're doing.

[Francko]

You might get a permie senior role but at age 35-40 without a blue-chip background it is not something to be relied on unless you have a clear niche skill.

Sorry Malvolio, what do you actually mean with that?

[malvolio]

I am almost 30 and married with no children. On the other hand, we want a baby in 2 years and settle down in a place. (would you agree that London is best place to find contacts andcommute to other areas?) My current company is giving away bonuses and awards to me but not promotion (i guess to keep me in).
I am confused because some say £500 will bring £70K others less or more. I think assuming net £70K is OK, is it?

Many many thanks for your responses.

I have to say my strongest side is to find opportunities out of nowhere. If I had time and a capital, I was well rich by now because all my ideas happened in front of me over the years. I think that is the reason I will like contracting if I go for that path.


The biggest concern for me is the fear of ruining my career by going contracting. I don't think this would happen but how do you think people will think if I would apply for a senior management role 5 years later with 8 years big 5 consultancy experience + 5 years contracting? Would I be in a better position to stay as perm?

I would love to make more money but thank God I am not in such a bad position to make my decisions on that only!

Cheers!!!!!!

Been there, done that. I'm still a freelance...

Like I said, go contracting or stay permanent, don't try and mix and match the two. You might get a permie senior role but at age 35-40 without a blue-chip background it is not something to be relied on unless you have a clear niche skill. Once you are contracting, career progression stops totally and all you do is improve your skillset: to most permie managers that means a lot less than five year's of HR appraisals saying what a good boy you are.

Bluntly, you will be competing with people who are your peers now but will be five years ahead of you then. You may get lucky, but that's not a good basis for a decision.

[XLMonkey]

Can you help another monkey too? I am always interested in calculators and stuff. What the world would be if one monkey doesn't wash other's monkey hand.

of course, just pm me. in the meantime, have a banana

[confusednewbie]

I am almost 30 and married with no children. On the other hand, we want a baby in 2 years and settle down in a place. (would you agree that London is best place to find contacts andcommute to other areas?) My current company is giving away bonuses and awards to me but not promotion (i guess to keep me in).
I am confused because some say £500 will bring £70K others less or more. I think assuming net £70K is OK, is it?

Many many thanks for your responses.

I have to say my strongest side is to find opportunities out of nowhere. If I had time and a capital, I was well rich by now because all my ideas happened in front of me over the years. I think that is the reason I will like contracting if I go for that path.


The biggest concern for me is the fear of ruining my career by going contracting. I don't think this would happen but how do you think people will think if I would apply for a senior management role 5 years later with 8 years big 5 consultancy experience + 5 years contracting? Would I be in a better position to stay as perm?

I would love to make more money but thank God I am not in such a bad position to make my decisions on that only!

Cheers!!!!!!

[Francko]

newbie,

all good stuff posted so far -- but if you actually want to work out the numbers, I have a spreadsheet that calculates the likely costs and benefits to you based on your circumstances. PM me and I'll send it on through.

XLM (I am not called XL Monkey for nothing)

Can you help another monkey too? I am always interested in calculators and stuff. What the world would be if one monkey doesn't wash other's monkey hand.

[Denny]

I agree with malvolio. I could earn more in some permie jobs, less in others. But at the end of the day, it is a life style choice rather than a financial one. To say, Diestl, that you never take sick leave so that benefit is irrelevant is rather arrogant. How do you know what is going to happen next week? Bird flu might jump species and you'll be laid up for a month with no income (unless you've got insurance). In a permie job that pays sick, you wouldn't have to worry about paying the mortgage, etc.

There are pros and cons to both, and at the end of the day no-one can tell you what to do. I personally love the flexibility of contracting but wouldn't say no to a permie job if it was the right one for career and training prospects (why pay for it myself if I can con it out of someone else!). As long as I can pay my bills, I don't care either way.

I think a lot depends on lifestyle and commitments. If you have a spouse and kids then a comparable salary and benefits could be a much better choice than contracting because there is more scope for long term planning and security. Heaven knows how many marriages have broken up due to a downturn in the contracting market with no money coming in for months on end and lousy rates when it does. That is a real possibility with contracting, because the good times of long contracts and high fees is cyclical. Permies who are well skilled, in post for a long time have real transferable skills and a payout if they're made redundant after many years, and a much easier time of getting another full time job afterwards made possible with all those years of free corporate training.

For those who yearn for independence and some degree of control over their working life rather than the daily tussle of office politics and waiting in line for promotion and only getting it because their face fits, then I would agree that contracting is a more attractive choice.

If you think about lifestyle rather than finance you are much more likely to take the right path for you. Those who contract out of desparation because they've been made redundant rarely stay contractors for long. The real hard hitters of contracting can quite easily ride through the bad times - not because they've banked loads of cash either; it's because they still wouldn't considering becoming permie, even with the wolf knocking at the door. They are resourceful enough to live on on porridge and baked beans, whilst dreaming of cavier and sports cars, to spur themselves on to entering the boxing ring of repeated EB knockbacks. Even when things look so bleak that professional contracting isn't really feasible anymore, most will take up some other business or do some mini cabbing rather than wasting their energies into finding a permanent post.

Am I right, or am I right?