Reply to: No Budget - What to do?

[psychocandy]

Not quite sure if I'd be getting involved with the client. At the end of the day, as many have said, contract is with the agency.

I might be tempted to give them a heads up about what the client is up to (or I might not - they might get scared and that might stop them paying you). But ultimately, the clients budget and they're deal with the agency is not your problem. Opt in status may be relevant here also.

So, are the agency late paying yet? If not, even though you think there may be a problem, there isnt until the payment is late.

As for the extension, I'd be a bit concerned. I wouldnt go in until it was all signed and sealed.

Some big companies are the worst. The constant fannying about with budgets, timewasting etc is sometimes hard to believe.

[BlasterBates]

No do go in on Monday but go straight to the PM and tell him that the situation has become untenable. You just need to negotiate until you come to an agreement.

What I wouldn´t do is sit at home on Monday, have the discussion face to face. Also your agent needs to be involved. You are more likely to sort things out. At this stage you want to avoid a conflict if you can.

You really need to give the client an opportunity to sort things out before you finally walk, and if you do walk, best to be amicable, which doesn´t prevent you from chasing your invoices if necessary through the court. In the end your contract is with the agent, not the client.

[GB9]

Balls to this as a game of dominoes.

Tell the client that you have worked the time and expect to be paid. End of.

Unless you have something better to do next week, work it (on the basis its the last week of the contract which you stated before).

Don't accept any extension. You owe them nothing, especially any guilt about keeping the project ticking along or not.

Do you have insurance to cover legal costs of recovering debt? If not, then get some PDQ. Unless you have done something else you haven't told us about, no reasonably large organisation is going to risk a court case for the sake of a few quid. As others have said, they will find the money. After all, they have been happy to accept your work.

And finally, has your contact actually had the right to engage you internally? He may be trying to dig himself out of a hole. Seen it before.

[mudskipper]

When you sign a contract for '3 months' the PO that the client sends to the agent may well be for what they consider the average working days for '3 months' to be (say 57 days) - if you take no holiday etc. then you may well exceed what the PO is made out for. It is the agents problem, but seems to me that, assuming the extension is approved, you could possibly 'bank' the excess days against the new contract. So basically work fewer days than the PO is for to make up for the extra days you worked for previously.

But that is you being nice and doing everyone a favour - this is really the agent's problem.

[MrT]

Unless I have missed it, you seem to have failed to answer the simplest of questions. Do you invoice the agency or the client directly? If you invoice the client directly, what is the agents role in this? If you invoice the agency ( no idea why the client would say they are not paying YOUR invoices if this is the case) turning to them for help seems daft if they are part of the problem.

Great point - I must of let that one slip past me, however i have updated my post

RE: why i have leaned on the agency....

First of all i don't believe the agency are aware that this is a 'problem' yet. Bear in mind that the client sent this note to me, and me alone on workday, late in the evening.

As for why i have contact them, well if (and i need to confirm this bit still) this is going to impact my payment later down the chain then i want to get ahead of this quickly before i continue with work that I could end up not getting paid for.

Thanks,

Mr.T

[oracleslave]

Unless I have missed it, you seem to have failed to answer the simplest of questions. Do you invoice the agency or the client directly? If you invoice the client directly, what is the agents role in this? If you invoice the agency ( no idea why the client would say they are not paying YOUR invoices if this is the case) turning to them for help seems daft if they are part of the problem.

[MrT]

Hey Everyone - First of all thanks so much for all the useful help

First of all i am glad to see i am not going insane or thinking this is a little bizarre...!

I should add that the client has been heavily pushing me for a permanent role within the company, it may be that the sudden "Run out of budget" in this area and "permanent role offer" may go hand in hand, but i could be reading into things too much here (the extension was aimed to keep the project ticking along until such a time we discussed the permanent role further).

However i have fired off a note to my agency to enquire what the process is typically in these situations and what to expect in terms of support (Honestly, i have no idea - I have never been in this position before). I am just in the process of trawling through my contract, terms and conditions, agreements and the other documentation I have to refresh myself what payment terms were explicitly listed. RE: Opting in and Opting out - I opted out at the start of my contract. RE: Invoices, these are sent straight to my agency.

Now the big question is, do i turn up on Monday or not....

I would hate to have to leave early and the project 'high-and-dry' so to speak, but do i keep things turning over in my clients business until this is resolved or tell them that i am not working until such a time that this is settled...? Given how i only have 7 days left of my contract its a difficult place i have been put in by the client, that's for sure.

Would appreciate the input / comments from anyone who can pitch in their thoughts

Thanks,

Mr.T

[cojak]

Now they are hinting at an extension should you bend over. What are the bets that if u agree th extension gets suddenly pulled?

WjmoS with bells on!

'does that help?' means precisely bugger all and the situation is outrageous.

You shouldn't accept the extension at all as if they've done this once they'll do it again.

Stand firm as the others say and tell them you expect to be paid.

[darrenb]

Just say you will get back to them about how to work through their problem after you've taken some independent legal advice.

When they learn you are talking to an adult, you will be amazed how soon they find they have a mistake in their figures and they're not "over budget" after all.

[jmo21]

There is something missing here.

When they hired you, they would have had to get approval for X days at the agents rate

They've chosen to try and **** u over as they've screwed their budget on something else.

Now they are hinting at an extension should you bend over. What are the bets that if u agree th extension gets suddenly pulled?

[Wanderer]

Surely it is the agents invoice they are not paying so nothing to do with you? Who do you invoice, the agent or the client?

WHS. It's the agency's problem, not yours. The agency are supposed to pay you and then get the money off the client.

Since the client is talking to you directly about this, ask the client how much they are paying the agency.

Also are you opted in or opted out?

That's going to be important too because if you opted out then the agency may be able to refuse to pay you if the client won't pay, as SueEllen says...

[SueEllen]

Regardless of whether the OP is opted-in or out I would get all conversations recorded via email.

Then if they are opted-in and the client refuses to pay the agency - give the emails to the agency after being paid.

Then if they are opted-out but there is a clause in the contract which means the agency has to pay them in x days - I would wait until they are paid in x days and then give the emails to the agency.

Then if they are opted out but not truely opted-out and have a clause where they aren't paid if the agency isn't paid I would inform the agency I was opted-in and I would chase them using Dunning.

Then if they are truely opted out and have a clause where they are not paid if the agency isn't paid I would do everything to ensure the client paid the agency including walking off-site.

[northernladuk]

Just had a thought. Why is the client tell you they can't pay your invoice? Surely it is the agents invoice they are not paying so nothing to do with you? Who do you invoice, the agent or the client?

Also are you opted in or opted out?

[northernladuk]

Firstly... Unless the paperwork is signed then forget the extension. No contract = no extension whatever anyone says to you at the client. Work on that basis for now.

I have never heard of a large organisation running out of money and not paying an invoice so something doesn't sound right. Budgeting in large organisations is a bit of a black art and it is amazing where they can find money from. A quick look at who has worked on the project and a bit of cross charging should sort it... but either way, there should be a complete disconnect between budget of a project and your payment.

I presume from your wording you are invoicing weekly?

I am trying to think of options here such as tell them fine, pay you when they have the budget and it will be held as a debt which will accrue interest but I can't get past this not having budget thing. I just think you need to stand firm and tell them you have worked it you expect payment, call you when it is sorted.

If I was in your position I wouldn't be doing any bending just yet and let them get their house in order. Give them a bit of time to sort themselves out before starting on the official letter writing route.

Oh... and start looking for a new contract.

[MrT]

Hi Sue - Great questions, sorry i should of stated this at the start!

I have a written and signed contract (by both parties) for the dates up until the end of April.

The contract i have is with an agency, whom i have also written too about this situation.

Thanks,

Mr.T