Reply to: Questions from a newbie

[The Agents View]

I've not read this whole thread - so apologies if I'm repeating.

1) Perhaps ask the agency what the REALITY of the situation is. Every contract I issue says 30 days - I normally pay in 4 - 30 days is just to cover me in the event of a clerical error. Imagine if you were on 7 day terms and the payroll girl misses your payment - immediately you're in breach of contract and in a whole heap of doo doo. 30 days means that you have time to b*11ock said payroll girl, and pay the contractor, and not invoke any legal issues.

2) Ask the agency if they could help you out just to get things going - 2 or 3 weeks of invoices paid promptly. I've never worked for an agency which would have had any issue doing this.

3) If you hadn't thought about the above, are you sure you're cut out for this? Business is about human interaction, and finding solutions - contracts are there to back things up legally, but on things like payment terms, they are generally just there to cover - hence the words "Within 30 days" and not "30 days on the dot".

As for the junk about agencies witholding contracts until 3pm on a Friday being an issue. If you'd worked at an agency you'd know that it's rare that the consultant issues the paperwork - it's generally someone over whom they have very little control, who sends it when they like - in a busy agency, there's no time for "can you tactically hold onto this until 3:00pm on Friday".

[MyUserName]

I had this happen in a perm job. Had three interviews etc and got offered the position. On the letter with the contact there was a reference that I would only work in the local office for a month and would then be transfered to London. I phoned the Director and reminded him that I had specifically stated I would not do that. We talked and he explained that the local office was being shut, we takled more and he agreed that the entire cost of the commute to London would be added to my salary when the move happened.

I ignored my instincts and took the job, utter and complete mistake - I was out within a few months as a new CTO took over who had friends looking for a job (me? bitter ... nah ... ). The fact that moving me to London would have cost them a fortune did not help my case.

[psychocandy]

I've had it where the agent was leaving it to the last moment to spring the complete change of location on me - hidden in the small print, the location had changed from London to Slough. Fine if you're local, not fine if you've just found somewhere to stay which is considerably more expensive than it need be, plus the commuting costs.

Oh and then said "it's only for a week while you get your SC through..."

I got stitched with this one many years on my 2nd contract. Agent dropped in at the last minute that client wants you to work in other office for 2-3 weeks (200 miles away). Then you'll be back in local office. My fault as well because there was no location on contract.

Turned up at office and there was no plan to work from local office. Stuck with it for a while - 6 weeks or so - but the client didnt budge on it. In the end, because I hadn't factored in accomodation costs long term, I told the agent to stuff it and left.

Agent wasn't happy but I did point out that they had misled me in the first place....

[psychocandy]

I cannot believe for one minute they would delay the contract for this reason. It is much more likely to come and bite them on the arse when it does then go in for review and they lose 5 days billing when you don't start. It's ok to have a dim opinion of agents and they can be difficult to handle to but to believe everything they do is devious to this level is pretty poor IMO. They aren't your worst enemy and they do not all exist just to screw you over at the first opportunity. At the end of the day it is a symbiotic relationship so they can't all be out just to screw us at every opportunity. Is some cases there are reasonable reasons why an agent doesn't deliver.

I have been in this situaiton and it was down to the speed of the process. I could accuse the agent of being a bit tardy but certainly not devious to this extent.

Ok. Fair enough. Bit cynical maybe but I still wouldnt be totally surprised....

But agents are there purely to make money. They dont care if you've sorted things out at your end first - the earlier they get you signed up and all sorted the sooner they get their money.

[Taita]

Not that it helps you much, but in my experience some of the larger companies are the most tardy payers. They'll no doubt pay Alex Mann eventually but just because they have the means to, doesn't mean they will pay on time.

But they are big enough to have a purchase ledger department that just wants to clear invoices and does not have a personal (or financial) need to exceed terms.

Thirty days is quite standard between businesses so I am a little unsure as to "special case" requests from us as contractors. Either we are in business and our funding is as adequate as that we expect from our trading partners or we are quasi employees.

[Contreras]

Rubia mate - seriously. Do you really think the agency accidentally send you a blank contract or that they accidentally waited until 3pm friday? Chances are this was deliberate so you'd have no chance to get it reviewed.

So who told you you HAD to be there monday? Agency I reckon. Chances are client may not be that bothered but agency want you there all done and dusted and money coming in.

What you should have done is said thanks but I'll get the contract reviewed and, hopefully, start in a few days. Not being funny but you're not exactly negotiating from a position of power on the train on the way to the client.

This ^^, all of it.

Next time you might want to discuss payment terms at the same time as discussing the rate.

[eek]

I cannot believe for one minute they would delay the contract for this reason. It is much more likely to come and bite them on the arse when it does then go in for review and they lose 5 days billing when you don't start. It's ok to have a dim opinion of agents and they can be difficult to handle to but to believe everything they do is devious to this level is pretty poor IMO. They aren't your worst enemy and they do not all exist just to screw you over at the first opportunity. At the end of the day it is a symbiotic relationship so they can't all be out just to screw us at every opportunity. Is some cases there are reasonable reasons why an agent doesn't deliver.

I have been in this situaiton and it was down to the speed of the process. I could accuse the agent of being a bit tardy but certainly not devious to this extent.

+1 never assume malice while incompetence remains plausible

[jmo21]

I was offered the role 2.5 weeks ago but all the checks they require are taking a while

No excuse for not sending you a copy of the contract sooner. Even if it was just a template "this is what it will look like before we add your name, co, client, rate etc"

I always look for this sooner rather than later (assuming they can't send me the actual contract quickly) and I make it VERY clear up front I'll be getting it reviewed.

[TheFaQQer]

I have been in this situaiton and it was down to the speed of the process. I could accuse the agent of being a bit tardy but certainly not devious to this extent.

I've had it where the agent was leaving it to the last moment to spring the complete change of location on me - hidden in the small print, the location had changed from London to Slough. Fine if you're local, not fine if you've just found somewhere to stay which is considerably more expensive than it need be, plus the commuting costs.

Oh and then said "it's only for a week while you get your SC through..."

[northernladuk]

Rubia mate - seriously. Do you really think the agency accidentally send you a blank contract or that they accidentally waited until 3pm friday? Chances are this was deliberate so you'd have no chance to get it reviewed.

So who told you you HAD to be there monday? Agency I reckon. Chances are client may not be that bothered but agency want you there all done and dusted and money coming in.

What you should have done is said thanks but I'll get the contract reviewed and, hopefully, start in a few days. Not being funny but you're not exactly negotiating from a position of power on the train on the way to the client.

I cannot believe for one minute they would delay the contract for this reason. It is much more likely to come and bite them on the arse when it does then go in for review and they lose 5 days billing when you don't start. It's ok to have a dim opinion of agents and they can be difficult to handle to but to believe everything they do is devious to this level is pretty poor IMO. They aren't your worst enemy and they do not all exist just to screw you over at the first opportunity. At the end of the day it is a symbiotic relationship so they can't all be out just to screw us at every opportunity. Is some cases there are reasonable reasons why an agent doesn't deliver.

I have been in this situaiton and it was down to the speed of the process. I could accuse the agent of being a bit tardy but certainly not devious to this extent.

[psychocandy]

Thanks for the advice.

The main issue I have with the payment terms is that I need to get some cash flowing sooner rather than later after finishing up my last contract in Australia in November. I don't really want to wait until mid April to receive my first pay. I'm hoping they can at least be flexible for the first few weeks (or even for this short contract) and pay within 7 days. After that I am happy to move to 30 days.

I am going to email them today and call them from the train tomorrow morning and see how quickly they can get an amended contract to me. I don't really think it's fair that I was sent a contract at 3pm Friday (when I was not at home) and am expected to start Monday without any forewarning of the detail. They previously sent me a blank contract so that I could get my IR35 review done, but the 30 day terms were conveniently left off!

The client is a large company and I have no doubt will pay Alexander Mann on time, so in that regards I feel confident. Just reading through the forums pretty much everyone suggests not signing the opt-out form.

Rubia mate - seriously. Do you really think the agency accidentally send you a blank contract or that they accidentally waited until 3pm friday? Chances are this was deliberate so you'd have no chance to get it reviewed.

So who told you you HAD to be there monday? Agency I reckon. Chances are client may not be that bothered but agency want you there all done and dusted and money coming in.

What you should have done is said thanks but I'll get the contract reviewed and, hopefully, start in a few days. Not being funny but you're not exactly negotiating from a position of power on the train on the way to the client.

[quackhandle]

Thanks for the advice!

I'm happy to start tomorrow ( I was offered the role 2.5 weeks ago but all the checks they require are taking a while), my real issue is being sent a contract Friday afternoon and having no time to negotiate any part of it before being expected at the client tomorrow morning.

I've sent off an email asking for 7 day payment terms and will just have to try to work it out before I walk onto the clients site tomorrow (I've got a half an hour window to achieve this!). Fingers crossed they agree or it will be awkward for all concerned.

See bold text, get yourself organised, you're running a business now. Welcome to the game!

qh

[Rubia]

Thanks for the advice!

I'm happy to start tomorrow ( I was offered the role 2.5 weeks ago but all the checks they require are taking a while), my real issue is being sent a contract Friday afternoon and having no time to negotiate any part of it before being expected at the client tomorrow morning.

I've sent off an email asking for 7 day payment terms and will just have to try to work it out before I walk onto the clients site tomorrow (I've got a half an hour window to achieve this!). Fingers crossed they agree or it will be awkward for all concerned.

[Wanderer]

I'm hoping they can at least be flexible for the first few weeks (or even for this short contract) and pay within 7 days. After that I am happy to move to 30 days.

Ask them - it's possible they can try to expedite your first couple of invoices for you.

On 30 day terms you certainly want to be invoicing weekly too. Make sure you get your timesheets signed off and submitted at the correct time so you get paid.

Just reading through the forums pretty much everyone suggests not signing the opt-out form.

Yep. You could email them first thing Monday morning (before you start) and tell them you are withdrawing the opt out or if it's just short contract then wait till the next one and then opt out.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the advice.

The main issue I have with the payment terms is that I need to get some cash flowing sooner rather than later after finishing up my last contract in Australia in November. I don't really want to wait until mid April to receive my first pay. I'm hoping they can at least be flexible for the first few weeks (or even for this short contract) and pay within 7 days. After that I am happy to move to 30 days.

I am going to email them today and call them from the train tomorrow morning and see how quickly they can get an amended contract to me. I don't really think it's fair that I was sent a contract at 3pm Friday (when I was not at home) and am expected to start Monday without any forewarning of the detail. They previously sent me a blank contract so that I could get my IR35 review done, but the 30 day terms were conveniently left off!

Contracting is a big bad world. 'Fair' doesn't come in to it. It's business, they want someone to start on Monday and there will be a lot of contractors that would jump at the chance. My last three gigs have been interview Tuesday/Wednesday and start Monday with signed contract in place. QDOS do turn them around v quickly if you call them and advise the situation..

The client is a large company and I have no doubt will pay Alexander Mann on time, so in that regards I feel confident. Just reading through the forums pretty much everyone suggests not signing the opt-out form.

They suggest not signing it as it adds some extra protection but when it comes to it trying to stay opt in can be a proper fight with the agency with lots of to'ing and fro'ing. If you don't have the time and don't need the level of protection it offers then it isn't a deal breaker IMO.