Reply to: Revenge of HR....

[SueEllen]

I think it fair to say that there are more and more of these roles appearing, and I think some companies ARE trying to get the best of both worlds - permie/cheap and contractor/short term.

Initially these contracts weren't aimed at the technology sector.

I have friends and acquaintances who in their sectors can only get employment on FTC.

These roles can become permanent if:
1. Their trial project is found to be needed, or,
2. There is further funding, or,
3. The person they are covering for who is on maternity leave doesn't come back.

However in lots of sectors the aim of these contracts is not to allow the person to have any pension rights.

So while they can have paid holidays and some benefits the main aim is to keep the number of people in the company/organisation pension scheme down.

Oh and permies have probation periods.

If you are a crafty HR person with managements backing you can ensure that you extend the probation period just long enough to sack the person before they get full employment including pension rights.

As long as you only do this to young people and document everything you are unlikely to be caught out.

[northernladuk]

I think it fair to say that there are more and more of these roles appearing, and I think some companies ARE trying to get the best of both worlds - permie/cheap and contractor/short term.

This is of course misguided. The good permies will get normal permie full time roles, the good contractors will stick with normal contracts.

So they are likely to get weak permie types who can't get full time roles, or weak people trying to be contractors, which is in actual fact the worst of both worlds.

Both types will end up moaning to go full time, and not trying a lick as they feel aggrieved by their rubbish fixed-terms status.

Completely agree hence my comments that if they become too common place it will get picked up on and exposed for the disgrace they are. It works for the odd role with mitigating circumstances but if it becomes the norm such that no one in the country can get a job with more than a year of security it can't bode well for anyone.

[jmo21]

You are comparing apples with pears... This is NOT aimed at us. Just because it has the word contract in it you can't get sucked in to think it's for us. It is for permies and to reduce the effort HR has to put in to them. There is no point complaining about the cut in rate, it isn't comparable to what we do.

I think it fair to say that there are more and more of these roles appearing, and I think some companies ARE trying to get the best of both worlds - permie/cheap and contractor/short term.

This is of course misguided. The good permies will get normal permie full time roles, the good contractors will stick with normal contracts.

So they are likely to get weak permie types who can't get full time roles, or weak people trying to be contractors, which is in actual fact the worst of both worlds.

Both types will end up moaning to go full time, and not trying a lick as they feel aggrieved by their rubbish fixed-terms status.

[northernladuk]

And there's the problem. There have always been daily raters who have taken lower offers because they're desperate for work, but now it seems that HR or maybe some CFOs have figured out how to exploit that sentiment further.

I should probably point out that the 2 FTC roles I've seen did come with 22-25 days holiday, so it wasn't 'no' benefits, but still obviously not enough to account for the roughly 50% rate cut from the daily rate equivalent.

You are comparing apples with pears... This is NOT aimed at us. Just because it has the word contract in it you can't get sucked in to think it's for us. It is for permies and to reduce the effort HR has to put in to them. There is no point complaining about the cut in rate, it isn't comparable to what we do.

[rob s]

And you really think there isn't???? In this day and age?

And there's the problem. There have always been daily raters who have taken lower offers because they're desperate for work, but now it seems that HR or maybe some CFOs have figured out how to exploit that sentiment further.

I should probably point out that the 2 FTC roles I've seen did come with 22-25 days holiday, so it wasn't 'no' benefits, but still obviously not enough to account for the roughly 50% rate cut from the daily rate equivalent.

[Kelstar]

I interviewed 18 months ago for a day rate contract that when it came to the offer stage was converted into a FTC.... I laughed and told them to sod off. I had just landed a better gig at £100 a day over the initial day rate on offer and had no interested in fixed term contracts.

My experience redundant permies are taking these roles, managed a project where I got to see everyone on the programme budget code and if they were a day rate (DRC) or fixed term contractor (FTC)... was in interesting read. Have to say I could have guessed who was in which camp but my suspicions were confirmed.

[northernladuk]

Will only keep going as long as there are people out there who are desperate to take them...

And you really think there isn't???? In this day and age?

[psychocandy]

Will only keep going as long as there are people out there who are desperate to take them...

Like someone said, permie salary with none of the benefits. Stuff that.

Would be wassed if I went for interview and it got changed to this? Surely its not too much to expect to have the deal sorted out beforehand and not change it afterwards?

[LKK]

That HR department is very unprofessional.

Some FTC rates are OK... Still not as good as a day contract.

[northernladuk]

Why would there be an outcry. If the HR department is any good they can get rid of any permie without too much effort.

I don't think that is true at all. If the permie has anything about them they will come back with bigger guns than the HR can in most situation where disciplinaries are not involved. You get an employment solicitor involved and HR will tulip themselves, particulary if a union is involved. You can end someones contract that is pretty average, doesn't really fit in, not a team player, isn't good looking enough, wears polo neck jumpers rather than low slung summer tops etc but is very difficult to remove them through HR procedure. There is all the competency things that can take months and the permie goes of stress yadda yadda. Removing permies is not easy at all.

There would be an outcry because people can't get permanent jobs anymore and all the associated problems with people not being able to hold down a job for more than a year and so on. It's not a very nice way to string people on before giving them a job. Remember we accept it and it's fine. To permanent people this is their worst nightmare. If it starts to become the norm the politicians will suddenly appear to be on the public side... Just what I reckon anyway. These are not a good thing and shouldn't start becoming standard practice IMO.

[SueEllen]

Why would there be an outcry. If the HR department is any good they can get rid of any permie without too much effort.

There lies the problem.

[SimonMac]

I know a few companies that are pushing these, as before I ignore them

[eek]

Yep, getting more and more common I am afraid. This FTC is awful and is a cheap get out for the companies. Cheap permie with no benefits but easy to get rid with little rights. HR's dream. I reckon this is one of those things that will slow gain in pace until some in politics mentions it and then there will be a national outcry.

Why would there be an outcry. If the HR department is any good they can get rid of any permie without too much effort.

And all these contracts do is to ensure people are paid the same as permies which to the permies must seem like a good deal.

[northernladuk]

Ok, now this is getting ridiculous. Two recent potential contract roles have now been scuppered by HR departments refusing to sign off and who have then decided it should be a 12 month Fixed term role at half the pay. I know of another company where this is being touted seriously to hiring managers.

Anyone else found this?

Yep, getting more and more common I am afraid. This FTC is awful and is a cheap get out for the companies. Cheap permie with no benefits but easy to get rid with little rights. HR's dream. I reckon this is one of those things that will slow gain in pace until some in politics mentions it and then there will be a national outcry.

[kingcook]

Ok, now this is getting ridiculous. Two recent potential contract roles have now been scuppered by HR departments refusing to sign off and who have then decided it should be a 12 month Fixed term role at half the pay. I know of another company where this is being touted seriously to hiring managers.

Anyone else found this?

Never happened to me, but I have seen FTC advertised. They are the ones I ignore.