Reply to: Banks cutting contractor rate again

[GB9]

I know LTSB have consistently paid over the odds regarding contractor rates for years but, I think a lot of agents put rates out there in this market to see what the expectation on rates is. Otherwise, they have to resort to phoning contractors and say 'as part of a survey, we want to know what your rate expectations are' etc, etc.

I worked at The Halifax about 6 years ago in Halifax / Pudsey and Edinburgh. They weren't great payers back then. Got called at the start of the year asking if I would be interested in a PM role at £380, told them what I would do it for, supposedly got submitted but heard nothing, so seeing advert at '£350-£450' was a bit of a change.

As you implied, it may be a case of anyone not it at £350 gets nowhere.

I also recently faced off to a Bob supplier who had a couple of Bob contractors in who were on circa £250 as PMs on a large project. They were both useless, although to be fair to them, I have no idea why they were there as most of the time the senior Bob management just bypassed them.

Some agency mark-ups are ridiculous at present.

[stek]

I know what you mean but, Im finding lots(?!) of are stating a rate of 'upto £325 a day' for specific roles when they contact me. So you say, 'OK, I'm happy with £325, submit me' and that's the last you hear.

I know LTSB have consistently paid over the odds regarding contractor rates for years but, I think a lot of agents put rates out there in this market to see what the expectation on rates is. Otherwise, they have to resort to phoning contractors and say 'as part of a survey, we want to know what your rate expectations are' etc, etc.

Where they have stated a rate, I've recently been saying I'd be OK with £25 - £35 less than the max but frankly, it hasnt made a difference.

What I'm thinking is various BobCo's are pitching to ClientCo's saying we got loads of top contractors on low rates can we have be the outsourcer....

Hence you get Damco, Blackapple, Avance, et al possibly all pimping for HCL, Wipro, TCS etc hoping to get a foot in when in fact only one can, chances are none will, and there's not even a role in the first place.

[BolshieBastard]

Got an e-mail about a LBG job in Hfx. today. PM role paying from £350-£450. That's the highest I have seen a LBG job in Hfx. advertised for ages. Maybe they have realised that if you pay carp money you get carp results.

Would be interesting to see what they go with. Someone vaguely useful at £450 or someone not so good but cheap.

I know what you mean but, Im finding lots(?!) of are stating a rate of 'upto £325 a day' for specific roles when they contact me. So you say, 'OK, I'm happy with £325, submit me' and that's the last you hear.

I know LTSB have consistently paid over the odds regarding contractor rates for years but, I think a lot of agents put rates out there in this market to see what the expectation on rates is. Otherwise, they have to resort to phoning contractors and say 'as part of a survey, we want to know what your rate expectations are' etc, etc.

Where they have stated a rate, I've recently been saying I'd be OK with £25 - £35 less than the max but frankly, it hasnt made a difference.

[stek]

Got an e-mail about a LBG job in Hfx. today. PM role paying from £350-£450. That's the highest I have seen a LBG job in Hfx. advertised for ages. Maybe they have realised that if you pay carp money you get carp results.

Would be interesting to see what they go with. Someone vaguely useful at £450 or someone not so good but cheap.

The £180/200 a day Bob agent (it's Wipro) job going the rounds for Pudsey is now being pimped at £300/day to me in awful English (where is Edinberg?), considering it's literally three mins from me........

But working for a Bobco.....?

[GB9]

Got an e-mail about a LBG job in Hfx. today. PM role paying from £350-£450. That's the highest I have seen a LBG job in Hfx. advertised for ages. Maybe they have realised that if you pay carp money you get carp results.

Would be interesting to see what they go with. Someone vaguely useful at £450 or someone not so good but cheap.

[BolshieBastard]

Can I ask what you would call a kings ransom?

LTSB appear to have signed up to Hyphen's 'Employed Contractor Model' as Hyphen are advertising 6 BA ECM roles.

That's going to equate to a rate cut eventually.

[GPC2013]

Bank of England are certainly not worrying about their rates. I was just offered a kings ransom to work there

Turned it down though as journey was pants. Start a work from home one for slightly less on Monday.

Can I ask what you would call a kings ransom?

[mos]

The money needs to be good to be worthwhile, if you consider everything you have given up in return for a simple daily rate. Compared to when I first started out, every year the gap between contracting and permie-dom becomes less and less when looked at from a total comp/take home scenario. And with rates being static/squeezed (IB dev London) contracting is a little like frogs in water being slowly boiled.

Great metaphor. I am currently being paid 30% below my "tulip resistance with smile" comfort zone. However the permies at my current clientCo are also paid exactly 30% less than my old permi rate and that is below the London survival rate not even considering "replication".

[sbakoola]

The thing is how are IB's going to entice talent from other IB's if they're offering mediocre rates.

Its not going to happen.

And as for permies in IB jobs who move from job to job.. I see those guys as running away from something as the increase in net pay per month for the new job is typically very small indeed.... (why bother going to interviews even if it means £80 per month more in your pocket).

Most permies get peeved off after 1 year in IB's and start to take the p*ss after they don't receive the amazing bonus that was promised. This causes major problems and resentment, I've seen it time and time again.

If IB's what a shot at not producing a clanger and don't want outages and fiascos which the Bob's have made time and time again then just hire UK contractors who have the skills now and the track record but pay the rates. Otherwise its a complicated and downward slide working in IBs.

[fraymond]

If he's like me plan a + plan b = £750 a day. As MF has stated many times the problem with contracting is that the money is too good and too easy to turn down.

The money needs to be good to be worthwhile, if you consider everything you have given up in return for a simple daily rate. Compared to when I first started out, every year the gap between contracting and permie-dom becomes less and less when looked at from a total comp/take home scenario. And with rates being static/squeezed (IB dev London) contracting is a little like frogs in water being slowly boiled.

[eek]

£350/day with Plan B? Why bother working on Plan A any more?

If he's like me plan a + plan b = £750 a day. As MF has stated many times the problem with contracting is that the money is too good and too easy to turn down.

[ChimpMaster]

This £400/day for City development jobs is no good. I'm in Central London and its ok if it were a 9-5pm job with some working from home but most city jobs are 9am-6pm with free overtime etc. hard development and release deadlines and 3rd line support responsibility + dealing with the traders / business people and all the politics and the outsourcing outfits etc. endless meetings and stress.

I reckon with my treasure chest I could initially pull £200-£350/day with plan B, so it aint worth it

In my last IB the Bobs were taking the best work and the IT manager in the London was too weak to stop it and didn't see what they were doing (i.e. making him redundant). I got out of there quick as a flash after I'd got as much out of it as I could.

£350/day with Plan B? Why bother working on Plan A any more?

[sbakoola]

This £400/day for City development jobs is no good. I'm in Central London and its ok if it were a 9-5pm job with some working from home but most city jobs are 9am-6pm with free overtime etc. hard development and release deadlines and 3rd line support responsibility + dealing with the traders / business people and all the politics and the outsourcing outfits etc. endless meetings and stress.

I reckon with my treasure chest I could initially pull £200-£350/day with plan B, so it aint worth it

In my last IB the Bobs were taking the best work and the IT manager in the London was too weak to stop it and didn't see what they were doing (i.e. making him redundant). I got out of there quick as a flash after I'd got as much out of it as I could.

[northernladuk]

You sound like a permie! You are running a business you can up your rate at any point for whatever reason, as many other business do. The client can choose to say no but you should never live in fear of your clients. You don't have to make a strong case, its your business and you can set the rate to whatever you like. Just as clients are fond of cutting rates without any reason, Attitudes like yours make contractors look weak and permie like, please stop giving advice.

I just got a 6 month extension starting January with 15% increase, never gave a reason just said it was my new rate.

LOL, rubbish. I am being pragmatic and taking a slight dose of reality. You can indeed do all these things but in the real world you would be wasting your time much more often than not. What you can do and what you can do with a reasonable chance of making it stick are two totally different things.

Just cause you pulled it off once doesn't mean it works for everyone. Put more effort in to justifying it and you have a much greater chance of pulling it off.

[BrilloPad]

Would it be madness for push for a rate rise in banking in the current environment?

Get another gig with more money. Its the only language HR understand.