Reply to: Newbie Question

[Stan.goodvibes]

Everyone else here has pretty well summed up what I would have said, but I'd like to emphasize the value of extensions on your CV. All my contracts have been extended not only because I am totally b-awesome but because they have typically initially been for only 3-6 months but that has mostly been a 'trial' period. The real project has gone on much longer. I think the one-pager on your CV of recent experience with say your last 3-4 roles on it and every one of them has an extension looks pretty compelling. I always take the extension, and then look for another role...

[malvolio]

She did try allegedly. I went out for a beer with the development manager, he was a curious as me to find out the markup, he "accidently" let slip what he was paying the agency and we calculated the agent was taking a fraction under 15%

No, no, no... You are getting a fraction under 87%.

[Ketchup]

What happened to the higher rate she thought she could get? Did she get it and is keeping it for herself?

She did try allegedly. I went out for a beer with the development manager, he was a curious as me to find out the markup, he "accidently" let slip what he was paying the agency and we calculated the agent was taking a fraction under 15%

[escapeUK]

Thank you all for your advice. The phone just rang, and i now have a 12 month extension at my current rate.

What happened to the higher rate she thought she could get? Did she get it and is keeping it for herself?

[Sausage Surprise]

Thank you all for your advice. The phone just rang, and i now have a 12 month extension at my current rate.

Well done.... but it would be interesting to know what the agent's mark up is all the same...

[bless 'em all]

BOOMED!

Nice one, well done.

[Ketchup]

Thank you all for your advice. The phone just rang, and i now have a 12 month extension at my current rate.

[Ketchup]

Thank you very much for all the advice. When i considered my move to contracting, i never thought about things like this. There really is much more to being a contract developer than writing code.

I had "the call" from the agent asking if i would consider an extension. I said i would, she said she thinks she can get me a higher rate with the client, so i will leave her to it.

[lukemg]

1 - DONT under any circumstances take a pay cut, on the contrary I would be asking for more. Even if it is only as an excuse to leave later.
2 - In the absence of another offer and with short notice period, I would take this one to keep the meter running AND first contract does look better with a few renewals on (within reason).
3 - There is no harm in chucking a few CV's out there, especially if you have some time to go on existing contract. MAKE SURE you stay focussed on existing work and keep the standard up, I find this hard to do so rarely look when in contract.
4 - IF something better comes up, make sure it is better and not a 3 monther on 20 quid more which leaves you with two 3 monthers on your CV.
5 - Be patient, you have useful skills, work in the right area, add some experience and the coin should follow later. Dont get billy big time too early and burn bridges for the sake of it.
6 - GOOD LUCK and make sure you aren't flogging a dead technology if the market shifts/gets too crowded.

[Wanderer]

You are correct, I have just read my contract and there is a clause in there regarding discussing my rate with the client.

Yeah, right. Don't let that put you off. That's just there to scare the noobs.

As a first time contractor, it is very likely that they are raping you (and the client) on the margin it's no wonder they don't like you to discuss it. Ignore the advice from the shrinking violets here and ask the client straight up what they are paying the agency. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that agents do they have a skin as thick as an ogre so don't worry about offending them. It's just business and they know that..

Alternatively you can drop your rate into casual conversation with the client and see how they react. They may be a bit offended and refuse to tell you or they may be completely open about it, you get all sorts so you have to play it by ear. Other times the client is a little careless with the paperwork and you find out anyway. You certainly don't want to be signing up to a 12 month contract without knowing what the agent is taking, they should be on less than 10% margin on a 12 month contract.

If you have a 1st class degree and 8 years experience then you are definitely selling yourself short for working in London. Tell then you aren't in any hurry to accept an extension at that rate and you will have a bit of a look at the job market for a few weeks before you make your decision. The implication is that if you are on lower than market rate then they aren't going to be able to retain you. Get your CV out there and see what bites you get. If the market is slow then think about knuckling down to the extension. Otherwise use the alternative offer to bargain with or just leave.

On the other side of the coin, it may look a bit better if you have done a few longer contracts than many shorter ones but then again I've worked with a lot of very talented people who's CVs are full of clients where they've done 3 month projects and moved on.

Whatever you do, get your war chest in order - you need 6-12 months worth of living expenses stashed away for a rainy day in this business.

[mudskipper]

So client asks OP if he can negotiate on rate.
OP simply says, "Sorry, £290 is really bottom end of market rates. I'm unable to consider extending for anything less".

[northernladuk]

You are correct, I have just read my contract and there is a clause in there regarding discussing my rate with the client. The agent called me today asking how things were going and asked if i would be interested in a renewal. I said i would be and highlighted my concerns about the client potentially wanting to lower the rate. She said that they wouldnt get anyone of my experience for that money so doubts they will try and lower it (I know it is her job to be obsequious).

All my work has been of a high standard and delivered to estimate, i have 6 weeks left and am sure they will realise that it is better the devil they know rather than trying to save £50pd

Just make sure you push for £100 and accept £50. Thing is you have to be hard faced about this. It is a battle of wills. If you ask with a bit of limp approach he will laugh you off. If you show him you mean business and he is gonna lose money if you walk you will get your slice of the cake. These guys are experts in saying no don't forget. He doesn't care if you justify it, he only cares on what he can get away with it. Walking is the only thing he will understand.

[Ketchup]

You are correct, I have just read my contract and there is a clause in there regarding discussing my rate with the client. The agent called me today asking how things were going and asked if i would be interested in a renewal. I said i would be and highlighted my concerns about the client potentially wanting to lower the rate. She said that they wouldnt get anyone of my experience for that money so doubts they will try and lower it (I know it is her job to be obsequious).

All my work has been of a high standard and delivered to estimate, i have 6 weeks left and am sure they will realise that it is better the devil they know rather than trying to save £50pd

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I don't totally agree with this. What you get is generally between you and the agent. You risk involving the client in business he shouldn't really be in and also may not want to be in and could end up taking a dim view of you both.

Yes if you are thinking of walking due to the agencts carry on you might want to mention it bue it is not something you would do lightly IMO. The client pays the agent and agreed rate for the right person, who duely turns up on site. Dragging him in to your rate discussions can end up working against you as well as you. This should be done when all avenues have been closed to you with the agent IMO.

WHS

Also this might be in your contract.....

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I don't totally agree with this. What you get is generally between you and the agent. You risk involving the client in business he shouldn't really be in and also may not want to be in and could end up taking a dim view of you both.

Yes if you are thinking of walking due to the agencts carry on you might want to mention it bue it is not something you would do lightly IMO. The client pays the agent and agreed rate for the right person, who duely turns up on site. Dragging him in to your rate discussions can end up working against you as well as you. This should be done when all avenues have been closed to you with the agent IMO.

WHS

Also this might be in your contract.....