Reply to: Another 2-Year-Rule Question !

[malvolio]

My scenario - an extremely common scenario IMHO. Additional note : Location X, Y and Z are substantially different locations.



Your dead simple rule



Plugging my scenario into the rule:

Counting back 24 months from [end of contract D - 6 months from now], you [will have] spent more than 40% [12/24 = 50%] of your working time over the previous 24 months at [Location Z].

Sorry, but your 'dead simple' rule has a fundamental flaw in it. Can you not see that.

Yes, but it's not me that's wrong. The 40% margin only applies once you exceed 24 months at a given location. Which I thought was understood. Clearly not.

OK, so restating the bleedin' obvious:

Starting from today, you know when the projected end of your contract is. Counting back from there, if you have spent more than 24 months at substantially the same location/journey and if so, more than 40% of your working time over that 24 month period at that location , regardless of client, the rule applies. Otherwise it doesn't.

[centurian]

My scenario - an extremely common scenario IMHO. Additional note : Location X, Y and Z are substantially different locations.

Contract A - Location X - 6 months
Contract B - Location Y - 6 months
Contract C - Location Z - 6 months
Contract D - Location Z - 6 months (today being day 1 of this contract)

Your dead simple rule

Starting from today, you know when the projected end of your contract is. Counting back from there, if you have spent more than 40% of your working time over the previous 24 months at substantially the same location/journey, regardless of client, the rule applies. Otherwise it doesn't.

Plugging my scenario into the rule:

Counting back 24 months from [end of contract D - 6 months from now], you [will have] spent more than 40% [12/24 = 50%] of your working time over the previous 24 months at [Location Z].

Sorry, but your 'dead simple' rule has a fundamental flaw in it. Can you not see that.

[malvolio]

Well you have only been there for 6 months - you intend to be there for a year.

But in any case, I think you will find that the scenario described (which is a very common one IMHO) - does fall foul of your 'dead simple' rule described. Over a rolling 24 month period, you have spent more than 40% at location Z.

There's nothing to say you also had to start the 24 month rolling window at location Z, which is perhaps what you meant, but then it becomes a much less simple rule.

No es comprende....

Assuming the Z-location gig is in 6 month bits, and the three locations are not sufficiently similar that HMRC treat them as one, you've only got 18 months at most at the Z location.

[centurian]

Nobody said it was fair. But assuming X, Y and Z are different you've only been there a year.

Well you have only been there for 6 months - you intend to be there for a year.

But in any case, I think you will find that the scenario described (which is a very common one IMHO) - does fall foul of your 'dead simple' rule described. Over a rolling 24 month period, you have spent more than 40% at location Z.

There's nothing to say you also had to start the 24 month rolling window at location Z, which is perhaps what you meant, but then it becomes a much less simple rule.

[malvolio]

But by that logic, you would get hit after 6 months - if you accept a 6 month extension.

Contract A - Location X - 6 months
Contract B - Location Y - 6 months
Contract C - Location Z - 6 months
Contract D - Location Z - 6 months (today being day 1 of this contract)

So the end point of the rolling 24 months is the end of contract D - and working back 24 months from that point, about 50% of the time will have been at location Z - well over the 40% mark - unless you have very large amounts of WFH / time off.

Nobody said it was fair. But assuming X, Y and Z are different you've only been there a year.

The mistake people make is assuming you're entitled to 24 months expenses. You aren't.

[RockyBalboa]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...renewal-3.html

[centurian]

Scoping the rules is actually dead simple, honest.

Starting from today, you know when the projected end of your contract is. Counting back from there, if you have spent more than 40% of your working time over the previous 24 months at substantially the same location/journey, regardless of client, the rule applies. Otherwise it doesn't.

That's why trying to work out break periods and so on doesn't work. It's a dynamic, day-by-day assessmment.

But by that logic, you would get hit after 6 months - if you accept a 6 month extension.

Contract A - Location X - 6 months
Contract B - Location Y - 6 months
Contract C - Location Z - 6 months
Contract D - Location Z - 6 months (today being day 1 of this contract)

So the end point of the rolling 24 months is the end of contract D - and working back 24 months from that point, about 50% of the time will have been at location Z - well over the 40% mark - unless you have very large amounts of WFH / time off.

[malvolio]

Scoping the rules is actually dead simple, honest.

Starting from today, you know when the projected end of your contract is. Counting back from there, if you have spent more than 40% of your working time over the previous 24 months at substantially the same location/journey, regardless of client, the rule applies. Otherwise it doesn't.

That's why trying to work out break periods and so on doesn't work. It's a dynamic, day-by-day assessmment.

[centurian]

It is 40% of time in that geographical location over a rolling 2 year period so 3 months is no way near enough, I don't believe 6 months will really cut it either but you would have to do the sums.

WHS

I have generally considered that a break ticks down the clock at the same rate. So your clock is currently 18 months - a 3 month break brings it down to 15 months, meaning you would then be able to take one 6 monther in that area again (but only one).

However, I would still not be 100% convinced that this meets the rules so best to speak to an expert.

[Wanderer]

Opinions, please. Any better solutions?

I suggest you go for one of those off shore, employee benefit trust schemes, preferably one that is "fully HMRC approved" and with a headquarters in Lagos.

You may even be able to do a little bit of side line business facilitating multi-million pound transfers through your bank account to help our Nigerian friends with their money problems that they always seem to be having.

Also, get some practice at picking up soap off the shower floor by bending your knees.

[cojak]

<slowly bangs head against wall...>

[SueEllen]

So, what would be the minimum amount of time to reset the 2-year clock, should renewal not go ahead?

If they sort their budget out, in say 3 months, there could be an opportunity to re-approach...

Get a decent contract in between for about a year.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the answers, guys. You confirmed my suspicions.

It is possible renewal will not be offered for budgetry reasons - and to be honest I would not mind a break from the driving...

So, what would be the minimum amount of time to reset the 2-year clock, should renewal not go ahead?

If they sort their budget out, in say 3 months, there could be an opportunity to re-approach...

It is 40% of time in that geographical location over a rolling 2 year period so 3 months is no way near enough, I don't believe 6 months will really cut it either but you would have to do the sums.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I am shocked that your agency would even make this suggestion - you are being actively encouraged to defraud HMR&C - at the very least it's totally irresponsible. I am afraid that there are no 'ways round' anything in these circumstance; your only real options are to find another assignment closer to home or negotiate the rate to cover additional costs

[Cannon Fodder]

Thanks for the answers, guys. You confirmed my suspicions.

It is possible renewal will not be offered for budgetry reasons - and to be honest I would not mind a break from the driving...

So, what would be the minimum amount of time to reset the 2-year clock, should renewal not go ahead?

If they sort their budget out, in say 3 months, there could be an opportunity to re-approach...