Reply to: Miners, shipbuilders, IT contractors?

[NickNick]

3. The outsourcing to India is IMHO just a phase. New managers like to try and impress by doing something so they jump on the nearest bandwagon - currently outsourcing. We all know by now that it's a rubbish idea that saves no money - give a year or two and management will start to notice that as well. Then managers will be jumping on the new cost-saving bandwagon... bringing IT back in house where we have more control etc etc etc *yawn*

I've just had to apply for an Indian visa to visit Goa. Every manager who is considering outsourcing should have to go through that process, then they can see exactly how rubbish their IT systems will end up and the kind of hopelessly inefficient bureaucracy they will have to deal with.

The thing is, I've seen it labelled as a phase for some time now, and it's not one that shows any sign of slowing down from my expereince. In fact i'm working somewhere that is just starting down the road of outsourcing.

And I have three Indian Visas in my paassport, two of which are blanks done in error which always cause issues at border control around the world, so I concur on your last statement.

[SAP Recruiter]

Recruitment

Well im actually in the It recruitment business and I can confirm at present there seems to be a lot roles locally and international based. Obviously its dependant on experience but for gentleman/ladies who have been in the field for 20 years+ the money is still very good, I cant see the bottom dropping out just yet as common sense is still not very common.

[nomadd]

Everything is short sighted about this, but I dont think the investors or the directors actually care, I dont for one minute think that all of the people making the decision to offshore their IT Services genuinely believes its in the long term interests of the company.

QFT^

(EDIT: Quoted For Truth. )

[Scoobos]

I think the problem is that , in the short term at least (when you intially move and sack all your domestic staff but 2) you do reduce operational costs quite a bit (I've seen 30% despite the teething troubles doing it).

the CEO/ MD gets massive praise from the shareholders , and then takes his bonus and the next year when things start going badly, they jump ship and the next guy gets canned for the drop in dividend.

Everything is short sighted about this, but I dont think the investors or the directors actually care, I dont for one minute think that all of the people making the decision to offshore their IT Services genuinely believes its in the long term interests of the company.

[up4it]

I looked into this a few years ago and found that if a company manages to save 10% by outsourcing to India (or anywhere else) then they are doing very well indeed!

[Ignis Fatuus]

Carrying on with my Nothing Ever Gets Done Properly In India anecdotes - the partner last was reading a book she got in India and when it got to page 191 it jumped back to page 176 again and then there was about 30 pages missing from 191 onwards.

So, add inability to manage something simple like a printing press to the list. Yeah! Lets outsource to India!

My American copy of Huckleberry Finn has the same problem. And as for bags, LHR and CDG have broken at least half-a-dozen for me over the years. Incompetence is international, I'm afraid.

eek,

The second one is a good read I, Cringely » Blog Archive Something's rotten in IBM Dubuque - Cringely on technology

I love the last comment on the blog:

If it makes you feel any better a large company where I work has been indianising its workforce for years but has recently decided that its cheaper to run a data centre in Manilla.. Ironically, all the Indian line management are raising FUD about poor quality and lack of skills and that it’s not the money that counts.

[Stan.goodvibes]

Oh, and for the first time in my life the useless twats at Goa airport managed to rip the handle clean off my bag - there was no note or anything, it just came along the luggage conveyor as per normal.

Because you know, unloading some bags from the plane and putting them onto a trailer and taking them to the terminal is sooooo difficult.

[Stan.goodvibes]

Carrying on with my Nothing Ever Gets Done Properly In India anecdotes - the partner last was reading a book she got in India and when it got to page 191 it jumped back to page 176 again and then there was about 30 pages missing from 191 onwards.

So, add inability to manage something simple like a printing press to the list. Yeah! Lets outsource to India!

[eek]

Not that I want to get into an ICT discussion but Cringely is currently doing a series on IBM (its usa focussed but hey ho).

The second one is a good read I, Cringely » Blog Archive Something's rotten in IBM Dubuque - Cringely on technology

and includes this quote

Whenever IBM has a big project they now have to bring in extra workers, usually from India. I have been told they plan the arrivals over several days to a few weeks. They route people through different airports. They make sure there are never more than two or three workers coming on the same flight, effectively avoiding notice by Homeland Security.

[Scoobos]

Sure theres the odd trollr on there going on about colonialism, but really seems to be just isolated troll using different logins

I really hope you're right.

I'm as anti racist as they get (I annoy people with how much I am) - but the talk of outbreeding us and revenge is something that really worries me, especially given that I've just moved to Berkshire and commute through Southall every day . I hear views like this on the train

[oscarose]

maybe crossposting, but I find this report and the comments very worrying indeed. I had no idea so many people saw this as a WAR, but they do.

Our IT companies may relocate to other European countries, India warns UK - The Times of India

As I posted above (post 84), its about time we tried to do something to address the abuse of immigration that seems to be widespread.

Thanks for the link. Some interesting posting taking place.

[amcdonald]

It's even more worrying when you read what they write about us in the Comments section!

Would be interesting if any of our MPs took note of the comments and saw that the UK is being made a fool of by these Indian IT firms.

To be fair it looks more like an Indian / Pakistani slagging match than anything to do with ICTs

Sure theres the odd trollr on there going on about colonialism, but really seems to be just isolated troll using different logins

[ChimpMaster]

maybe crossposting, but I find this report and the comments very worrying indeed. I had no idea so many people saw this as a WAR, but they do.

Our IT companies may relocate to other European countries, India warns UK - The Times of India

As I posted above (post 84), its about time we tried to do something to address the abuse of immigration that seems to be widespread.

It's even more worrying when you read what they write about us in the Comments section!

Would be interesting if any of our MPs took note of the comments and saw that the UK is being made a fool of by these Indian IT firms.

[Scoobos]

maybe crossposting, but I find this report and the comments very worrying indeed. I had no idea so many people saw this as a WAR, but they do.

Our IT companies may relocate to other European countries, India warns UK - The Times of India

As I posted above (post 84), its about time we tried to do something to address the abuse of immigration that seems to be widespread.

[Notascooby]

I think it depends on the level of "creativity" and interaction needed. If it can be scoped and packaged off then it will be offshored - e.g. a new payments engine for a bank that has defined interfaces and no "users". If it has a lot of GUI or end-user interaction then a more agile / business focused approach will win as people will always argue whether it should be "Last Name" or "Surname" and how long the maximum string length shall be. No the same if dealing with SWIFT or other defined message / interface formats.