Reply to: Over qualified? Oh dear!

[NotAllThere]

I came out of a senior management permie position and went contracting as a techy. I just adjusted my CV so the seniority wasn't evident.

It's quite entertaining when clients see my full CV.

[TechRiskPartners]

This sadly happens to me once in a while. Usually when the interview is not by the manager or person hiring (I generally get those), but by other members of the team who you will be working with. They come in pairs, and generally one of them will be the team lead and have a superiority complex. He will be the one who has read your CV and has decided you are a potential threat to his position. He's the one you need to get around somehow and I've never quite figured out how to do it....

Exactly happened with my experience yesterday as I have posted above. After explaining I have designed Security Strategy for at least 10 FTSE100 companies, one of the pair from US kept asking how much experience you have in this.


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[TechRiskPartners]

Posting here as more relevant

Not sure can be off topic so ignore if you want. Recently spoke to a potential new Client - 1-2 days / week role. Client liked the CV and good discussion. Given them a lot of ideas how things are done in my area of expertise- Security/Controls/Risks/Compliance Implementations. However client feedback came as I was over qualified. (Big4 -13 Years, SM on Director Path, coming out of permanent job in July) What did I do wrong? What ticked that off? Also worth getting back to Client (directly or through Agent) just to explain more? I have couple of similar contracts roles (part time as what I am looking) already signed so wondering what went wrong. Desperately need the money as I am building some futuristic tools which has a good burning rate of resources.

Thanks in advance


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[SussexSeagull]

By the sound of it you haven't got the junior role for whatever reason the client decides. By all means keep in touch with the agent about a senior role but I tend to find when they say 'something suitable for you might appear soon' they are either being overly kind or overly optimistic.

In other words, continue looking elsewhere.

[northernladuk]

Whats wrong with that approach?? surely even you can see that its better to be billing for a junior role and getting friendly with the client, gesaring up for a senior role than to be waiting about for a senior role that may never get signed off??

Because it is not what the client wants. Doesn't matter what is right/makes sense etc if it the client won't swallow it.

If you havent mastered the skills to manipulate your agent/clients to allow you to take a role youve been rejected for then maybe youre not cut out to be a contractor??

[northernladuk]

For some reason, I read that in a Barry White voice and thought we were turning into a dating site...

Either that or an episode from Ally McBeal.

Do you keep seeing dancing babies???

[Joeman]

The thread is about the OP and other posters not being able to secure a particular gig because they are over qualified. How is asking the client to put him in to role he is over qualified help? It is the whole point of the thread that this doesn't work.

And if you read the original post again, the OP would like to take the role as its the one he applied for anyway, but it seems likely he will now not be considered for the role he applied for due to being "over qualified".
My suggestion was a means to get him into the role he applied for (and billing), until such time as the more senior role get sign off. at whcih point he would assit in replacing himself and take a rate rise to move to the senior role.

Whats wrong with that approach?? surely even you can see that its better to be billing for a junior role and getting friendly with the client, gesaring up for a senior role than to be waiting about for a senior role that may never get signed off??

If you havent mastered the skills to manipulate your agent/clients to allow you to take a role youve been rejected for then maybe youre not cut out to be a contractor??

[TheFaQQer]

...get it on here...

For some reason, I read that in a Barry White voice and thought we were turning into a dating site...

[northernladuk]

Care to clarify why??

The thread is about the OP and other posters not being able to secure a particular gig because they are over qualified. How is asking the client to put him in to role he is over qualified help? It is the whole point of the thread that this doesn't work.

[Joeman]

You are not quite getting the grasp of this thread are you?

Care to clarify why??

[northernladuk]

So ask the agent to suggest to the Client that you fill the Junior role until such time as the Senior role gets sign off, then you can assist the Client in the hiring of a junior to backfill your position as you move to the Senior role.
You'll be better placed to do the Senior role having done a few weeks/months at the 'coal face first' - its a "Win-Win" for everyone right??? (bit of a permie tactic though)

You are not quite getting the grasp of this thread are you?

[Joeman]

So ask the agent to suggest to the Client that you fill the Junior role until such time as the Senior role gets sign off, then you can assist the Client in the hiring of a junior to backfill your position as you move to the Senior role.
You'll be better placed to do the Senior role having done a few weeks/months at the 'coal face first' - its a "Win-Win" for everyone right??? (bit of a permie tactic though)

[SteelyDan]

NLUK - cheers; appreciated.

[northernladuk]

NLUK - Apologies if I appear to be having a go at you; not intended but felt I must respond to your comments

I don't have a problem with that.

There is a high risk you will find the work boring, beneath you and also find better work/rate else where.

No, the work was/is really interesting, hence the reason I applied. Might add also I travelled a considerable distance for this role, which should indicate a certain level of interest. The rate was/is a good rate, so no issues there.

It doesn't matter what you think/want/can do. It is what the client thinks. We all say we will do the same as you say but we see more than enough people on this forum alone jumping ship for better roles and clients are well aware of this. THey don't know you will stay, they have to weigh up the risks.

We all know people jump ship for rate at the drop of a hat in a role they are qualified for so it is a given it will happen to someone over qualified.

No, not applicable in this case, I wanted the role, felt comfortable with it, got interviewed for the role, and the rest is history as they say. I haven’t, and wouldn’t, commit to a contract and then jump ship. Call me old fashioned, but I like to operate ethically & with integrity, although I’m sure some don’t.

Again, it doesn't matter what you think. It is what the clients think and as admirable as your intentions are they are not those of many people.

MF hits the nail on the head and I am pretty surpised contractors don't get this. You prove you are the best man for that role and no more. It is as simple as that. If it is beneath you dumb your CV down and do the same in the interview. Being better than the role is not a benefit to the client.

Not sure I agree with this. In order to get past the gatekeepers (recruiters) your details have to shine, particularly the way the market is currently, as you yourself have spelt out to myself and others re; CV. I tailored my CV to the spec, and without this (based on personal experience and a lengthy search period) wouldn’t have even been considered by the ‘wipes’ that are recruiters. Therefore if I had ‘dumbed down the CV’ then I would never been put forward at all.

Maybe in this case you did. It was a general comment. If you are PM you cannot go for PMO roles. If you are a Programme Manager you cannot go for PM roles. Ok someone will say they did, it does happen, but in general being senior to a role does not mean you are the perfect person, and in fact makes it more of a risk. I mean you dumb it down from PM to PMO if need be. If you did dumb it down to meet the role you were applying for in this instance then you have hit a bit of an unlucky one here.

There might be some value though (I concede) that to the senior hiring manager I, as a consultant, could have appeared to outshine him in both experience and qualifications. But if this is the case, then he should have been able to identify this when reviewing my CV, and rejected me at that stage. If they just wanted a ‘body’ then advertise the role as such, and don’t ask for a ‘consultant’.

Sod’s Law, of course, may well dictate that, after all of my whingeing, the ether-based senior role does come off. Naturally I’ll let all and sundry know if it does...if only as a message of optimism for fellow CUK-ers.

I aggree and that is the weird thing, surely you would expect a client to be happier getting a specialist and someone that can do the job with their eyes closed. As you say you would think this is why they ask for a consultant. Unfortuantely that is the way the cookie crumbles.

If the senior role comes off get it on here. Always good to see a boomed post!

[SteelyDan]

NLUK - Apologies if I appear to be having a go at you; not intended but felt I must respond to your comments

There is a high risk you will find the work boring, beneath you and also find better work/rate else where.

No, the work was/is really interesting, hence the reason I applied. Might add also I travelled a considerable distance for this role, which should indicate a certain level of interest. The rate was/is a good rate, so no issues there.

We all know people jump ship for rate at the drop of a hat in a role they are qualified for so it is a given it will happen to someone over qualified.

No, not applicable in this case, I wanted the role, felt comfortable with it, got interviewed for the role, and the rest is history as they say. I haven’t, and wouldn’t, commit to a contract and then jump ship. Call me old fashioned, but I like to operate ethically & with integrity, although I’m sure some don’t.

MF hits the nail on the head and I am pretty surpised contractors don't get this. You prove you are the best man for that role and no more. It is as simple as that. If it is beneath you dumb your CV down and do the same in the interview. Being better than the role is not a benefit to the client.

Not sure I agree with this. In order to get past the gatekeepers (recruiters) your details have to shine, particularly the way the market is currently, as you yourself have spelt out to myself and others re; CV. I tailored my CV to the spec, and without this (based on personal experience and a lengthy search period) wouldn’t have even been considered by the ‘wipes’ that are recruiters. Therefore if I had ‘dumbed down the CV’ then I would never been put forward at all.

There might be some value though (I concede) that to the senior hiring manager I, as a consultant, could have appeared to outshine him in both experience and qualifications. But if this is the case, then he should have been able to identify this when reviewing my CV, and rejected me at that stage. If they just wanted a ‘body’ then advertise the role as such, and don’t ask for a ‘consultant’.

Sod’s Law, of course, may well dictate that, after all of my whingeing, the ether-based senior role does come off. Naturally I’ll let all and sundry know if it does...if only as a message of optimism for fellow CUK-ers.

Thanks for all the comments & patience; much appreciated.