Reply to: Why do agents ask previous salary?

[perplexed]

Although it´s tempting don´t lie about your previous rate. It´s common for banks for example to have this information. If you tell porkies and you´re found out it´s automatic dismissal and never work there again, because you´ll be classified as a security risk. If you refise to give it they´ll automatically assume a low rate, and you won´t come across very well. The best strategy is to be honest, and if you want a higher rate just request it. If they really want you and you really are worth it then they´ll pay. But be honest, if you are on a low rate, chances are, that you´re not really up to it, so you need to work at it, getting more challenging contracts that pay better. I don´t see anyway round it. On the whole people are paid what they´re worth, if not you´ll find yourself with several offers and then you can stick your rate up. It´s not a question of miles under your belt with Java C# it´s about being in the right industry with the right business knowledge. You´ll know when you can demand high rates, you won´t need to play poker to get it.

Well, if the incredibly corrupt financial sector want to play that game, in the incredibly low chance I ever go for work in the financial sector, the Bank can then give me the details of the rates they pay all contractors.

After all, if they expect me to provide commercially sensitive information, "honesty" works both ways.

[BlasterBates]

Although it´s tempting don´t lie about your previous rate. It´s common for banks for example to have this information. If you tell porkies and you´re found out it´s automatic dismissal and never work there again, because you´ll be classified as a security risk. If you refise to give it they´ll automatically assume a low rate, and you won´t come across very well. The best strategy is to be honest, and if you want a higher rate just request it. If they really want you and you really are worth it then they´ll pay. But be honest, if you are on a low rate, chances are, that you´re not really up to it, so you need to work at it, getting more challenging contracts that pay better. I don´t see anyway round it. On the whole people are paid what they´re worth, if not you´ll find yourself with several offers and then you can stick your rate up. It´s not a question of miles under your belt with Java C# it´s about being in the right industry with the right business knowledge. You´ll know when you can demand high rates, you won´t need to play poker to get it.

[downsouth]

I replied to a job ad yesterday - rate was posted as £275 p/d - and shortly after the agent called. Discussed the role and divulged the fact I am a permie wishing to move to a contract Agent then told me that my notice period could be problem and asked what my permanent salary is - 27k. His response was to tell me that if I went in at 200 p/d this would make my application much more appealing to the client. During this I could hear him tapping away on his keyboard apparently doing some sums scaling my rate with a permanent salary

stick to your guns on the full rate, the only appealing bit of this is for the agent to skim off the difference

At that rate its probably quite a junior bum on seat type role so in that case £275 is the min you should ask for regardless of previous permie status, factor in IR35 and aim for the best rate you can get.

[malvolio]

I replied to a job ad yesterday - rate was posted as £275 p/d - and shortly after the agent called. Discussed the role and divulged the fact I am a permie wishing to move to a contract Agent then told me that my notice period could be problem and asked what my permanent salary is - 27k. His response was to tell me that if I went in at 200 p/d this would make my application much more appealing to the client. During this I could hear him tapping away on his keyboard apparently doing some sums scaling my rate with a permanent salary

£27k is £27 an hour as a contractor, or £216 a day. Since in contractor world you have no history and are therefore a bit of a risk, I suspect that just for once the agent is about right. It does happen...

[nealus]

I replied to a job ad yesterday - rate was posted as £275 p/d - and shortly after the agent called. Discussed the role and divulged the fact I am a permie wishing to move to a contract Agent then told me that my notice period could be problem and asked what my permanent salary is - 27k. His response was to tell me that if I went in at 200 p/d this would make my application much more appealing to the client. During this I could hear him tapping away on his keyboard apparently doing some sums scaling my rate with a permanent salary

[bobspud]

Out of interest, why are you scared of people thinking of staying permie?

I've been both permie and contractor over the years. Recently made redundant and although I was preferring contract role I couldnt discount if any cracking permie roles came along?

Companies want candidates that have both feet in the same boat. Permie and Contracting is not the same.

Too many contractors out there actually do fit the IR35 profile of a winging permie that wants job satisfaction, Security and loads more money too boot. They are high maintenance and not what you really want from a contractor. I had one work for me this year. He just didn't get contracting. Loved the money but wanted career guidance and promotion prospects... Sent the fscking idiot home in the end, because he kept complaining that he had to come to London to work... (He was an engineer on a data centre migration FFS...)

[perplexed]

Never been asked rate at screenings before, albeit not in financial sector.

Indeed, when asked about employment history at screenings, all they'll get is my employment status, namely Director of my limited company. "Gaps"? Well, been a director of that company since it was instituted.

Any gigs performed are confidential business information imo. Sure, I list them on my CV along with skills used for client reference, but I'm not going to put down for screening I was *employed* by ClientCo when that was a business to business deal.

As for previous rates, well, when asked all I do is add XXX to the current rate I'm on. If pimp wants to play hardball, I can then negotiate downwards in good faith whilst my company gets an increase or at worst, an equivalent sum.

[psychocandy]

It's just an indicator really. There's some real dreamers out there, who think that they can just move from Permie to contract, and earn 5 X the amount they did, and go about things in exactly the same way. Frankly, we want these people away from the jobs as much as you established contractors do.

Any Permie should have an uphill struggle to convince an agent to put them into a contract anyway - the transition is not just about payment mechanisms, it's a complete change of mindset. Sometimes we even ask it to see if the individual is still thinking like a Permie.....

That said, if you get to a stage of putting someone forward/getting them a contract offer, then knowing the salary they were on as a permie, is pretty handy in terms of sealing the deal.

Out of interest, why are you scared of people thinking of staying permie?

I've been both permie and contractor over the years. Recently made redundant and although I was preferring contract role I couldnt discount if any cracking permie roles came along?

[malvolio]

What if there isnt a range and the client is not sure what to pay? Why would someone quote a rate when they are willing to pay more for the right skills?. You lot are the first to complain if the rate is way less than what you are on and it only comes up late in the process. A skilled recruiter will always get a feel of what the client will need to pay for someone and what an individual will require to take a job if offered. If a contractor is on £800 a day and working within a mile of home with an extension in the offing they are hardly going to be interested in a contract paying half that 200 miles away. So why not ask?

Don't disagree, but where this breaks down is when the contractor has a good and verifiable reason for the rate he wants.

In my case it's based on working seven months a year, earning enough to pay the outgoings for the whole year, plus plus two variables, travel and incidental expenses and a factor for how risky/responsible the role is, plus 20%. That's the bottom line. Anything I can get over that is bonus. I also make sure to point out that in most of my gigs I have saved the client a hell of a lot more than I've charged them.

The problem comes when my base rate is above what the client thinks is the right rate. At which point I would rather like the agency to start negotiating the rate up to my level, not my rate down to the client's, since I don't do this for charity. Sadly, that very rarely happens.

[DodgyAgent]

I get fed up with the job ads that say 'Negotiable', 'Market Rate', 'Competitive'.

Give me a range, then I can decide whether to apply.

What if there isnt a range and the client is not sure what to pay? Why would someone quote a rate when they are willing to pay more for the right skills?. You lot are the first to complain if the rate is way less than what you are on and it only comes up late in the process. A skilled recruiter will always get a feel of what the client will need to pay for someone and what an individual will require to take a job if offered. If a contractor is on £800 a day and working within a mile of home with an extension in the offing they are hardly going to be interested in a contract paying half that 200 miles away. So why not ask?

[contractoralan]

including rates

have never heard of this one.

[centurian]

Also just be aware that if you do exaggerate, it can come back to bite you later.

The screening process for most banks involves a full declaration of your previous gigs - including rates. Making a signed declaration at this point will be fraud - akin to outright lying on a CV. Prosecutions are very rare, but people do get sent down for it.

With my first finance gig, ClientCo based their offer rate on my existing day rate that I had initially told the agent when we first spoke - and I had to argue bloody hard that I deserved the increase - coming from outside the industry. If I had initially exaggerated and then submitted a screening form with the different day rate....

Don't lose too much sleep over it, but don't go whining to anyone if you are unfortunate enough to be caught out.

[The Agents View]

I've always thought they asked you your permie salary hoping to impress you by telling how much more even their crap rate is gonna be above this?

I had one guy trying to convince me that honestly, this rate would mean my yearly income was about £5K above my permie salary.

Yeh. Probably was as long as the contract lasted a year, I worked every day, didn't bother with things like pension etc.

It's just an indicator really. There's some real dreamers out there, who think that they can just move from Permie to contract, and earn 5 X the amount they did, and go about things in exactly the same way. Frankly, we want these people away from the jobs as much as you established contractors do.

Any Permie should have an uphill struggle to convince an agent to put them into a contract anyway - the transition is not just about payment mechanisms, it's a complete change of mindset. Sometimes we even ask it to see if the individual is still thinking like a Permie.....

That said, if you get to a stage of putting someone forward/getting them a contract offer, then knowing the salary they were on as a permie, is pretty handy in terms of sealing the deal.

[psychocandy]

I've always thought they asked you your permie salary hoping to impress you by telling how much more even their crap rate is gonna be above this?

I had one guy trying to convince me that honestly, this rate would mean my yearly income was about £5K above my permie salary.

Yeh. Probably was as long as the contract lasted a year, I worked every day, didn't bother with things like pension etc.

[Robinho]

Sadly i did mean psychological. There's a few agents i'd like to beat up in the name of money.