Reply to: No notice Period???

[nomadd]

No, he's getting something wrong. You get investigated because something in your returns doesn't add up, there is a major year-on-year variance in your returns, or you are consistently late, or you appear to be claiming as an expense something outside normal parameters. The best way to stay outside an IR35 investigation is not to get investigated in the first place.

No, he isn't. And you can't stay "outside" a visit from the IR, just because you want to. If only!

Have you been contracting for 22 years...? No, thought not. If you had, you'd be used to "little brown envelopes" dropping on your doorstep once in a while.

I've never been late with PAYE, returns or VAT once in 22 years. Yes, there is variance in my earnings, as I take breaks from contracting. And no, no weird expense claims.

The inspections are just a result of having been in business for so long. They used to be much more frequent. And way back then, there were no where near as many contractors as there are today. The IR now seem to have run out of inspectors, as my last inspection was probably 12 or more years ago.

Still, all contractors need to be ready for "a visit". It can simply come out of the blue at any time. You don't need to do anything to "trigger" it. And it doesn't need to be part of an IR35 investigation. Your location, the size of the local IR office, and random chance all play a part. But, as I say, it could happen to any business - including contractors - at any time. So be prepared (as I'm sure you are.)


As I say, all mine have passed without incident.

[malvolio]

...And two VAT inspections as well. Must be my scar, or something.

Still, walked away "clean" on all occasions, so my accountant must be getting something right!

No, he's getting something wrong. You get investigated because something in your returns doesn't add up, there is a major year-on-year variance in your returns, or you are consistently late, or you appear to be claiming as an expense something outside normal parameters. The best way to stay outside an IR35 investigation is not to get investigated in the first place.

[nomadd]

Which begs the question, what are you doing wrong to warrant so many investigations?

...And two VAT inspections as well. Must be my scar, or something.

Still, walked away "clean" on all occasions, so my accountant must be getting something right!

[Fred Bloggs]

Which bit of a "no notice contract is that you cannot leave for the duration of the contract" do you not understand? Or have issues with? If you really do have to bail out for good reason mid contract, you would either negotiate with the client or, rather more sensibly, use the substitution clause in your expensive IR35-friendly coontract. That's what it's for.

So stop thinking like a permie

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[malvolio]

WHS^

The subject of notice periods has been debated to death many times on here... Still, my own personal take: fairness. I always insist on a 4 week notice period, both ways. If the client and agency won't agree to that - which always means they want something one-sided in their favour - then I politely decline.

Which is fine if you can pick up work at the drop of a hat. Quite a few contractors can't these days

The IR35 argument is pure hogwash. And I should know, I've been through 3 tax inspections in the 22 years I've been contracting. They all passed without incident.

Which begs the question, what are you doing wrong to warrant so many investigations?

[nomadd]

I've never really bought that argument. Lots of commercial contracts have notice periods, and it's not unusual for a supplier to be paid for that notice period even if the service wasn't provided.

If you'd been offered say a 2 week notice period, and the client wanted to get rid of you early, and you don't immediately find another gig, that's a couple of thousand pounds income you've negotiated away. All because of the tiny possibility it could be the deciding factor in an IR35 investigation that may never happen. And it may well be (as happened to me recently), the client will want you to work your notice period.

WHS^

The subject of notice periods has been debated to death many times on here... Still, my own personal take: fairness. I always insist on a 4 week notice period, both ways. If the client and agency won't agree to that - which always means they want something one-sided in their favour - then I politely decline.

The IR35 argument is pure hogwash. And I should know, I've been through 3 tax inspections in the 22 years I've been contracting. They all passed without incident.

[VectraMan]

I agree, for my current gig, I negotiated the notice period away. The way I see it, the shorter the notice, the better from an IR35 perspective.

I've never really bought that argument. Lots of commercial contracts have notice periods, and it's not unusual for a supplier to be paid for that notice period even if the service wasn't provided.

If you'd been offered say a 2 week notice period, and the client wanted to get rid of you early, and you don't immediately find another gig, that's a couple of thousand pounds income you've negotiated away. All because of the tiny possibility it could be the deciding factor in an IR35 investigation that may never happen. And it may well be (as happened to me recently), the client will want you to work your notice period.

[Fred Bloggs]

Unless the contract explicitly states that the contractor will work the full duration of the contract and can't give notice I'd take that to mean that they have engaged you on an hourly/daily rate and you (and possibly they) are not required to give notice to terminate.

I can't see how you could have a contract to do (say) 6 months work for a client and no notice period. If the contract was to complete a particular project then that's understandable but hourly/daily rate? Nah.

If you get offered a contract like this then get them to clarify exactly what they require from you. If you really do have a contract where you have to work the full duration then make sure it has a realistic force majeur clause in it so you can terminate it should the worst happen.

I agree, for my current gig, I negotiated the notice period away. The way I see it, the shorter the notice, the better from an IR35 perspective.

[Wanderer]

the contract I've just been sent for review also has the term "no notice" in it.

Unless the contract explicitly states that the contractor will work the full duration of the contract and can't give notice I'd take that to mean that they have engaged you on an hourly/daily rate and you (and possibly they) are not required to give notice to terminate.

I can't see how you could have a contract to do (say) 6 months work for a client and no notice period. If the contract was to complete a particular project then that's understandable but hourly/daily rate? Nah.

If you get offered a contract like this then get them to clarify exactly what they require from you. If you really do have a contract where you have to work the full duration then make sure it has a realistic force majeur clause in it so you can terminate it should the worst happen.

[SueEllen]

So you still have to sue. Are you (hypothetically) going to pursue a lost week's income through the courts when the agent has the option of suing you for several months worth of their lost income because you've broken the contract? Probably better off not making a fuss.

You presuming the agency will definitely counter-sue in the first place. It's likely they won't and will pay up.

Particularly if they remember you as one of the contractors who got the contract rewritten by a solicitor who they then had to speak to or get an email from.

[VectraMan]

Point out you are opted-in and they have to pay you verbally and followed up by email.

Send them a letter telling them you are taking them to court for the money outstanding.

Start court proceedings.

There is nothing stopping them counter-claiming but they have to do it under a different clause in the contract.

So you still have to sue. Are you (hypothetically) going to pursue a lost week's income through the courts when the agent has the option of suing you for several months worth of their lost income because you've broken the contract? Probably better off not making a fuss.

[SueEllen]

What do you do if they don't?

Point out you are opted-in and they have to pay you verbally and followed up by email.

Send them a letter telling them you are taking them to court for the money outstanding.

Start court proceedings.

There is nothing stopping them counter-claiming but they have to do it under a different clause in the contract.

Though if you got your contract checked out by a solicitor before you signed it then you shouldn't end up with clauses you don't completely like and the agent will be also aware you are opted-in.

[NotAllThere]

I hired a couple of contractors in 2000. They could not give me notice, I could give them immediate notice. In recognition of the "unfair" nature of this, I paid an increased daily rate. Everyone was happy. Part of the reason for doing it like this, is that we felt it would bolster them being outside IR35.

Notice periods, like all commercial contracts, are down to negotiation. They do not have to be equitable or fair.

The most important clauses in my contracts, after the specification of the role, are how much I'll get paid, how often I can invoice, and how quickly my invoices will be paid. Notice periods are way way down the list.

[malvolio]

still none the wiser to be fair

Agreed if both parties are not bound by a notice period indicates you could leave at any given moment, but the consensus is that a 'no notice contract is that you cannot leave for the duration of the contract.

You cant have it both ways

Which bit of a "no notice contract is that you cannot leave for the duration of the contract" do you not understand? Or have issues with? If you really do have to bail out for good reason mid contract, you would either negotiate with the client or, rather more sensibly, use the substitution clause in your expensive IR35-friendly coontract. That's what it's for.

So stop thinking like a permie

[downsouth]

still none the wiser to be fair

Agreed if both parties are not bound by a notice period indicates you could leave at any given moment, but the consensus is that a 'no notice contract is that you cannot leave for the duration of the contract.

You cant have it both ways