Reply to: Miving from developer to BA

[Pungnan]

But it's still a really stupid way to do things.

couldn't agree more. a massive problem for alot of industries. especially when people spend 5 minutes doing a job before trying to move on/up to build up an impressive CV.

[NotAllThere]

It may not be restricted to the offshore industry, but it is particularly problematic in certain countries where hierarchy and status have more significance than others. But it's still a really stupid way to do things.

[Pungnan]

That's how it's viewed in the offshore industry. And it's total bollox.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily hold true in all cases and that there is absolutlely nothing wrong with being a career tester, developer or whatever, but it certainly isn't restricted to the offshore industry.

why do you think pay scales (certainly for permie jobs) increase as you move "up the chain"....????? As you progress (and I use the word advisedly) through IT roles you have greater responsibility for the end deliverable, hence the greater pay and supposedly status.

that's my view anyway, having in my time done all those jobs in the "logical" order and seen plenty of colleagues do the same. And I'm not offshore.

I think it might be more to do with whether you're actually that interested in technology/technologies (in which case you remain technical and do 'real work') or whether you're at heart a lazy arse who wants to go to meeting and push lines around on project plans all day......

[Platypus]

I seem to remember Suityou01 boasting about miving from dev to BA over over in General. If you can get any sense out of him, he may have some advice.

[Mich the Tester]

I'm sure Mich might have something to say about the idea that Testers are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

As long as I can earn 20 euros for having a dump I'm not complaining.

I went from helpdesker to tester to junior developer (PL/SQL, Oracle Forms etc) to Oracle and SQL Server DBA to project manager, then back to tester, then test coordinator and now test manager.

Basically, I enjoy testing; have done contracts as Interim Testing Manager for a whole multinational, large govt agencies, but prefer project work.

[NotAllThere]

without wanting to annoy career developers it's a fairly logical progression in my opinion. Tester. Developer. Analyst. Manager/PM...

That's how it's viewed in the offshore industry. And it's total bollox. You end up with the good developers moving on to analysis (and perhaps not being very good at it, because, as has been noted, they're different skills), as soon as they can. The only developers you have who've got continuity and maybe involved in what was developed three years ago, are those who are no good - as can be seen because they haven't been able to move "up". A crap developer may be a brilliant BA - but you'll never find out. A brilliant BA might be a bloody awful manager - but by the time they're in that role, it's too late.

This mindset, that the above mentioned roles are something that anyone can do - commoditisation -, has, in my view led to an enormous decline in quality - coupled with a slide in rates, as people aren't prepared to pay good rates for poor work.

I'm sure Mich might have something to say about the idea that Testers are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

[blacjac]

I do find though with being a BA though, it does require slightly more thought and input than being a developer. With development, a large proportion of the design work has been done for you. You need to know how to carry it through and if it goes slightly wrong you can always blame the architect or BA.

Bingo!
All my previous roles to the last 2 have been titled "developer" or "programmer" but in reality the real work has been a combination of BA and programmer, now that I have done a couple of pure development roles I see that it was the BA side of things that has been keeping me interested...

[MarillionFan]

Rejig your CV to focus on analysis type work, get an interview or two - permie or anything - and FIND OUT what you don't know that way... make notes of questions you're asked.

Just made the jump myself. It's thinking in a slightly different way and BA is more process driven. As long as you have the documentation and some methodology to follow it's not to bad.

I do find though with being a BA though, it does require slightly more thought and input than being a developer. With development, a large proportion of the design work has been done for you. You need to know how to carry it through and if it goes slightly wrong you can always blame the architect or BA.

At the BA/Architect side - you're producing the requirements or instructions for a developer to follow. It's a little bit more brain active!

[blacjac]

yes terrible spelling. "reccomended" "sucesfully" etc list goes on. Not being OTT but this is really very bad. What industry do you work in? It sounds like you only want to move in this direction to earn more $$?

I recently did the opposite and made a move from BA to Developer. As a BA you need a natural ability to work with others to extract information and have a good head for analysis. TBH they are very different skill sets and although you can take BA courses it will be difficult to make the move after 13 years developing. Not impossible but I would not be confident if my BA coudnt spell correctly

Totally agree, spelling is one of my personal bug bears, absolutely no excuse however the time of my initial post might explain things slightly (hic).

In my permie days I've recruited and managed both developers and BAs and I for one would have given an interview to a person in your situation as long as in their covering letter they'd explained that they were looking to "mive" and why. If that checked out at interview, I'd have negotiated a lower salary for first year with regular reviews.

The best BA I've ever worked with was a developer first (well, he mived both directions a couple of times in his career) and I think that a hybrid person who can do both roles is a real asset to an organisation, able to liaise equally well with business stakeholders and development teams.

My advice is to consider your motives very carefully (from what you said, I don't think you're just in it for the money) and if it really is about aligning your career with the parts of the industry that turn you on, then go for it, being prepared to face a fair few rejections until you meet someone willing to give you a chance. Good luck!

It is something I have been thinking of doing for a while, but only really decided I wanted to do it recently, money is not a motivating factor, I genuinely feel these days that I have 'had enough' of programming and gone as far as I want to go, which has surprised me a lot. I considered training as a PM (which tends to earn more than both BA & dev) however that does not interest me as much as becoming a BA at this time.

My current plan is to stay at the company I am currently a permie at for a good while and see if I can get an opportunity here and get a year or two under my belt before contracting again, however I was wondering if anyone on here had actually managed to make the jump while contracting. A couple of the contract BA's where I am did, but they both just fell into it - clientco wanting them to do a couple of months BA work to keep them on the books while the next development job kicked off.
I was wondering if anyone on here had made a conscious decision to do it and could offer any advice.

As for the buzzwords, I fell foul of this about 7 years ago before contracting, I was asked in interview if I had any exposure to a methodology. I was honest and said that I hadn't however I later found out that I had actually been doing it for about 3 years but they called it something different where I was working!

Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming!

[Pungnan]

without wanting to annoy career developers it's a fairly logical progression in my opinion. Tester. Developer. Analyst. Manager/PM. Not that there's anything wrong with staying focussed on any of these roles especially in the contract world.

Not sure about key 'buzzwords', maybe learning the fundamentals would be more beneficial, but as far as I'm concerned the key skills involve identifying and recording user cases & user requirements. As others have said the ability to understand what the business need rather than what they think they need (without being overly condescending) is also helpful,

[matzie]

In my permie days I've recruited and managed both developers and BAs and I for one would have given an interview to a person in your situation as long as in their covering letter they'd explained that they were looking to "mive" and why. If that checked out at interview, I'd have negotiated a lower salary for first year with regular reviews.

The best BA I've ever worked with was a developer first (well, he mived both directions a couple of times in his career) and I think that a hybrid person who can do both roles is a real asset to an organisation, able to liaise equally well with business stakeholders and development teams.

My advice is to consider your motives very carefully (from what you said, I don't think you're just in it for the money) and if it really is about aligning your career with the parts of the industry that turn you on, then go for it, being prepared to face a fair few rejections until you meet someone willing to give you a chance. Good luck!

[Random]

yes terrible spelling. "reccomended" "sucesfully" etc list goes on. Not being OTT but this is really very bad. What industry do you work in? It sounds like you only want to move in this direction to earn more $$?

I recently did the opposite and made a move from BA to Developer. As a BA you need a natural ability to work with others to extract information and have a good head for analysis. TBH they are very different skill sets and although you can take BA courses it will be difficult to make the move after 13 years developing. Not impossible but I would not be confident if my BA coudnt spell correctly

[blacjac]

Miving?

What the hell is miving?

Oh and....

Good place to start would be spelling the main function of the role right

oops

[d000hg]

Rejig your CV to focus on analysis type work, get an interview or two - permie or anything - and FIND OUT what you don't know that way... make notes of questions you're asked.

[northernladuk]

was more anaylisis than .

Good place to start would be spelling the main function of the role right