Reply to: Availability of Contracts >=500 p/d

[swamp]

There are ways to get into IB if you really want to. Most of the nay-sayers probably aren't cut out for it anyway.

Oh and £500+ a day outside finance is perfectly possible. You probably won't find such rates on JobServe though.

[d000hg]

nomadd, financial is a closed shop, trying to argue otherwise is like trying to argue the sky is not blue

As nomadd already explained (in a pretty good post) that's logically not the case. Otherwise there would be nobody under 50 working in IB, unless 100% of new jobs are filled by new graduates, which is not the case.

Just because you can't get into IB doesn't make it closed. It makes you unlucky, or missing some important things on your skills list, or having a bad CV, or just not being very good.

Nobody said it was easy, but the stick at it approach might take a good few years while you do other contracts waiting to get lucky.

[nomadd]

nomadd, financial is a closed shop, trying to argue otherwise is like trying to argue the sky is not blue

Pretty defeatist attitude, IMHO. Glad I don't share it. Still, no point flogging a dead horse any further. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree over this one.

Ps. For those still reading, I did a search for jobs on jobserve where "no previous banking experience was required" and got over 50 hits. Mostly permie, but offering £50k-£60k on average. If I was keen, I'd take a years break from contracting to do that. Then back to contracting. Where I'd stick at it.

[Not So Wise]

nomadd, financial is a closed shop, trying to argue otherwise is like trying to argue the sky is not blue

Sure sometimes people get lucky (mainly during the boom times when rates get to high even for IB's) but they are exception not the norm

As to post counts, by my calculations, looking at your start dates, you average 1.6 per day, malvolio averages 2.6 a day, an amazing one extra post per day.

[malvolio]

So, like me, you've managed to do it.

Why? Because rather than sit around here trying to get a post-count of nearly 5,000 (like some other posters I could mention) you directed your energies in the right direction. Good man.

Oh, and you learned to stick at it

The post count is close to 5000 mostly because I persist in trying to answer questions - usually the same old ones about contracts and clearance and the legals and how HMG views things - which I've been doing for several years now, and mostly in the two business-related boards. Usually with some success, but let's not let a little history get in the way.

In fact you could say I stick at it...

[nomadd]

Are you suggesting to stick at it ?

I can see what you are saying, but the reality is and what other posters are saying is that most IB roles require at least min 2 years experience to stand any real chance of getting in. I do have this just and yet have struggled in the past to progress with any roles. IB is like public sector, closed shop without a whole CV of industry experience. Luckily I am diversified enough (or rather to a point) to now be in Private Banking.

So, like me, you've managed to do it.

Why? Because rather than sit around here trying to get a post-count of nearly 5,000 (like some other posters I could mention) you directed your energies in the right direction. Good man.

Oh, and you learned to stick at it

[kaiser78]

Er, try reading the whole thread, and properly, next time. That saves you from looking like a fool...

You can't get into IB? It's a closed shop?

Then how the hell did I get into it then? Did my mother give birth to me here in this Bank? No. And do you know any other contractor who was born in an IB? No, me neither.

Let me tell you (although if you use Search you'll see we've debated this many times before...) how:

1. Bring your technical skills smack-bang up-to-date, especially those tools used by IBs (many of them are open-source or very cheap to purchase.) Stick at it.

2. Keep applying for roles through Consultancies and/or associated industries (Insurance, Retail Banking, Accountancy, Credit-card processing, etc.) I had to go through ALL of these in different roles in the last few years to even get a cv I'd be happy putting forward for IB roles. Stick at it.

3. Apply for 100's of roles. I had to pump forward 350-400 applications before I even landed an interview. Didn't want that job, but did want - and took - the one that came along a week later. Next IB role took less than a week to find. Stick at it.

4 Stick at it.

Hope the above helps.

Are you suggesting to stick at it ?

I can see what you are saying, but the reality is and what other posters are saying is that most IB roles require at least min 2 years experience to stand any real chance of getting in. I do have this just and yet have struggled in the past to progress with any roles. IB is like public sector, closed shop without a whole CV of industry experience. Luckily I am diversified enough (or rather to a point) to now be in Private Banking.

[malvolio]

Er, try reading the whole thread, and properly, next time. That saves you from looking like a fool...

You can't get into IB? It's a closed shop?

Then how the hell did I get into it then? Did my mother give birth to me here in this Bank? No. And do you know any other contractor who was born in an IB? No, me neither.

Let me tell you (although if you use Search you'll see we've debated this many times before...) how:

1. Bring your technical skills smack-bang up-to-date, especially those tools used by IBs (many of them are open-source or very cheap to purchase.) Stick at it.

2. Keep applying for roles through Consultancies and/or associated industries (Insurance, Retail Banking, Accountancy, Credit-card processing, etc.) I had to go through ALL of these in different roles in the last few years to even get a cv I'd be happy putting forward for IB roles. Stick at it.

3. Apply for 100's of roles. I had to pump forward 350-400 applications before I even landed an interview. Didn't want that job, but did want - and took - the one that came along a week later. Next IB role took less than a week to find. Stick at it.

4 Stick at it.

Hope the above helps.

Not really. I'm not a coder and my professional knowledge is bang up to date but at my level there aren't "hundreds" of jobs to apply for. And I've worked for IBs, just not in the last three years.

Anyway the argument is about distorted views of what the market rate is. IB is a special case and always has been.

[nomadd]

Well whoop-di-freaking-do, let's hear it for the heroes of IT contracting. Now explain how someone who isn't in IB can get into IB. It's a closed shop - [SNIP LONG WINDING OFF-TOPIC CHILDISH RANT]

Er, try reading the whole thread, and properly, next time. That saves you from looking like a fool...

You can't get into IB? It's a closed shop?

Then how the hell did I get into it then? Did my mother give birth to me here in this Bank? No. And do you know any other contractor who was born in an IB? No, me neither.

Let me tell you (although if you use Search you'll see we've debated this many times before...) how:

1. Bring your technical skills smack-bang up-to-date, especially those tools used by IBs (many of them are open-source or very cheap to purchase.) Stick at it.

2. Keep applying for roles through Consultancies and/or associated industries (Insurance, Retail Banking, Accountancy, Credit-card processing, etc.) I had to go through ALL of these in different roles in the last few years to even get a cv I'd be happy putting forward for IB roles. Stick at it.

3. Apply for 100's of roles. I had to pump forward 350-400 applications before I even landed an interview. Didn't want that job, but did want - and took - the one that came along a week later. Next IB role took less than a week to find. Stick at it.

4 Stick at it.

Hope the above helps.

[nfoote]

Well whoop-di-freaking-do, let's hear it for the heroes of IT contracting. Now explain how someone who isn't in IB can get into IB. It's a closed shop, for no real reason other than IB middle management want to stick to people they know and they have more money than they know what to do with. I've been refused entry to do a senior Service Delivery role that had absolutely sod all to do with understanding IB as a trade, and I'm not the only one.

Agreed, apparently Nomad's manager complains they can't find good people but I suspect he/she's never once looked at a CV that didn't already have IB scrawled all over it.

Does it not occur to them they could probably get two quality devs eager for IB experience for the price of one moron who said they already knew what a equity derivative was?

[malvolio]

Sorry, then you must be doing something wrong. Seriously.

I always agree the rate before the interview, and that's always based on what has been quoted. In 21+ years of contracting, I've only accepted a slightly reduced rate once - and that was so I could get some investment banking on my cv. And seem as though they were offering £600 / day anyhow, I wasn't too fussed.

So, once again, sorry, but if you think £500+ / day isn't available these days - in IB, as I stated earlier in this thread - then you are sadly disillusioned. I know many contractors in the marketplace, and I don't know any who are on less than £500 / day - most being on considerably more.

When permie Java Developers can pull up to £150k + bonus (Senior Java with Equity Derivatives exp - Investment Bank - City City, London Permanent IT Job) then what sort of right-minded contractor is going to do the same role for less than £500 / day?

Well whoop-di-freaking-do, let's hear it for the heroes of IT contracting. Now explain how someone who isn't in IB can get into IB. It's a closed shop, for no real reason other than IB middle management want to stick to people they know and they have more money than they know what to do with. I've been refused entry to do a senior Service Delivery role that had absolutely sod all to do with understanding IB as a trade, and I'm not the only one.

Meanwhile out in the real world, I know people who are turning down work because the rate doesn't make it viable to take the job on. Even at my level, day rates are down around 25% in London, and rather more outside.

[nomadd]

What agents offer in adverts <> what you will get offered if you get the role though...

Sorry, then you must be doing something wrong. Seriously.

I always agree the rate before the interview, and that's always based on what has been quoted. In 21+ years of contracting, I've only accepted a slightly reduced rate once - and that was so I could get some investment banking on my cv. And seem as though they were offering £600 / day anyhow, I wasn't too fussed.

So, once again, sorry, but if you think £500+ / day isn't available these days - in IB, as I stated earlier in this thread - then you are sadly disillusioned. I know many contractors in the marketplace, and I don't know any who are on less than £500 / day - most being on considerably more.

When permie Java Developers can pull up to £150k + bonus (Senior Java with Equity Derivatives exp - Investment Bank - City City, London Permanent IT Job) then what sort of right-minded contractor is going to do the same role for less than £500 / day?

[northernladuk]

208 Java jobs at £500+ / day for the last week alone.

What agents offer in adverts <> what you will get offered if you get the role though...

[d000hg]

Find java Jobs with jobserve.com

208 Java jobs at £500+ / day for the last week alone.

How many are the same role with different agencies?

[nomadd]

The £500+ range is rare.

As someone above said, if you're hearing this you're being bulltulipted. I've always been surprised by how some contractors need to inflate their rate to others.

Find java Jobs with jobserve.com

208 Java jobs at £500+ / day for the last week alone.

Average rate in the IB I work in - around 30 contractors in the Dept. - is £550-600 per day. And that's for Developers. Designer/Architect roles pay more.

The manager I report to constantly moans about not being able to find good people. Money isn't a problem for him.

I've always been surprised by how some contractors need to lower their rate to satisfy others.