Quick Question: Opting in expected within the Contract

[shanti]

effect, opted

went and got a coffee.
No you didn't. At least not from an informed source, and it's been discussed to death here many times.

btw - you don't have to suck it up. You tell the agent that these are the changes you want, otherwise you won't take the contract. See who blinks first. However, as the agent already clearly knows you are a patsy, you don't have the contract mindset, you're already at a disadvantage.

maybe. but he sounds a little gun-ho. i get the impression he is not bothered about the project or clientco (unless its on his terms)... short term project and thus could not careless or he is not happy with the clientco procurement department, etc.. it felt like a risk to say no and then wait for the call back which may never happen - considering the other interviewee who got rejected is still in the frame.

i suppose there is no strategy/method of calculating your barging power, other than asking a few questions carefully constructed and seeing if you catch the other person off guard in revealing their true desire to fill the slot.

another annoying tendency in these situations is that the clientco relationship is owned by the agency, so its probably pointless going to the clientco and moaning about the agent who really does not give a poo about their project. i could be easily stabbed in the back by the agent who could tell clientco that I declined the project or was unreasonable.

approaches/advice always welcome. but at this point i think i should take it if I am confident that its a decent project. as per other posts on this thread - I can't see them with-holding payment if I have to leave (30 payment terms for them to contractor) or suing for earlier departure.

[NotAllThere]

... I had seen something to that affect on the site,...
Probably make senses to get the clause removed from the contract or sent an email to the agent indicating that I consider myself opt'ed in?

effect, opted

... The response was a 5 min wait whilst he called his legal person

went and got a coffee.

... One day notice for them and no notice for the contractor. I heard that this was illegal or against agency governing rules as well?? ....

No you didn't. At least not from an informed source, and it's been discussed to death here many times.

btw - you don't have to suck it up. You tell the agent that these are the changes you want, otherwise you won't take the contract. See who blinks first. However, as the agent already clearly knows you are a patsy, you don't have the contract mindset, you're already at a disadvantage.

[northernladuk]

Tell me though.... Why do agencies put these clauses in the contract when they KNOW full well that they can't be enforced? Is it just a bluff or what?

Then when you point out that they are bang to rights, they go through all this palava of getting the "legal team" involved and pissing around for ages or getting really angry becase this is their "standard contract" and there is no way they can change it for you.

To be totally honest after looking through all the threads about Breach for another poster I came to the conclusion that even the contracts are never enforced. People leave, quit, get fired etc etc and no one ever takes the matter legal so the contract is worthless. Odd innit.

[shanti]

Tell me though.... Why do agencies put these clauses in the contract when they KNOW full well that they can't be enforced? Is it just a bluff or what?

Then when you point out that they are bang to rights, they go through all this palava of getting the "legal team" involved and pissing around for ages or getting really angry becase this is their "standard contract" and there is no way they can change it for you.

Guess what, I did tell him that the opting out should be a separate form to the contract and should not impact the offer.. I may as well have been talking to a brick wall. The response was a 5 min wait whilst he called his legal person (apparently) and then responded with the an adamant "no its not going to change on the contract"... to much "risk" if it does "so take it or leave it".

Makes me wonder if their legal person is right about putting it on the contract and saying it is enforceable? - or if the eyeballs on this site are right and that the contractor is assumed opted-in if they have been introduced to clientco prior to opting out?

They are also insisting on crappy notice periods. One day notice for them and no notice for the contractor. I heard that this was illegal or against agency governing rules as well??

I guess I just will have to suck it up if I want to work with the clientco - I can always leave if really, really need be (slavery ended a couple of generations ago). My preference is to have reciprocal notice periods, if I can't leave - they can't fire.

[Wanderer]

Tell me though.... Why do agencies put these clauses in the contract when they KNOW full well that they can't be enforced? Is it just a bluff or what?

Then when you point out that they are bang to rights, they go through all this palava of getting the "legal team" involved and pissing around for ages or getting really angry becase this is their "standard contract" and there is no way they can change it for you.

[MaryPoppins]

I assume this is an Elan contract.

Don't sign that sheet, just the other one.

[shanti]

Don't do anything at all and you will be opted in by default, unless you choose to opt out both as a company and personally before you are introduced to the client. Since you have a contract on the table, I'm guessing the client already knows who you are, so the question doesn't actually arise.

Thought as much. If the agency introduces you to the client before opting you out - you are considered opted in - I had seen something to that affect on the site, however I am sure the agents legal would argue the toss over the grammar of the law in court - if it came to that.

Probably make senses to get the clause removed from the contract or sent an email to the agent indicating that I consider myself opt'ed in?

[malvolio]

Don't do anything at all and you will be opted in by default, unless you choose to opt out both as a company and personally before you are introduced to the client. Since you have a contract on the table, I'm guessing the client already knows who you are, so the question doesn't actually arise.

[jmo21]

Shanti and SuitsYou should start a comedy IT blog together

[Clippy]

Shanti =

[northernladuk]

Am loving the classic Bob wording

[The Wikir Man]

If you don't like the contract, negotiate to have the clause removed. Do not be surprised if they don't like that and change the contract to something IR35 unfriendly as a consequence, to pressure you to opt out.

But given your CUK posting history, I can't wait to see how this one pans out

[shanti]

I know the advantages/disadvantages have been much discussed on this forum of opting in/out.

However, is it legal for an agency contract to assume you are opting out by putting the opt-out clause with your contract - is that legal?

I recall reading something/somewhere which indicated that the opt-in/opt-out cannot be put into the contract.

This is what the paragraph says within the contract:

"These terms and conditions are applicable to Limited Company contractors for UK assignments; here the contractor has opted out with respect to the Conduct Regulations. ‘EAA’ means the Employment Agencies Act 1973, and ‘Employment Agency’ and ‘Employment Business’ have the meanings defined by the EAA. ‘Conduct Regulations’ means the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment businesses Regulations 2003. ‘Opted Out’ means agreement made between the Contractor and a person to be engaged on the Services, notified to [Agent Name], and having the effect that the Conduct Regulations do not apply in relation to an introduction or engagement."

Can I object by citing something legally, to ensure its removed?

I would prefer to opt-in - its a short contract and there are not IR35 issues - I think I will be better protected if I opt-in.

Welcome your inputs asap as will have to provide feedback immediately to the agency.