Reply to: How many page you CV is ..?

[Ardesco]

Then you are using the wrong buzz words?

define yourself. ie, "I am a Project Manager" and my specialist area would be "Banks". If you want to get the attention of an agent, you have to think like an agent - or a customer if you like. How many times do you scan past the first 2 pages of Google when looking for something on a personal basis?

As for the comment on varied skills etc - balderdash - right at this moment, clients are looking for experience of their own industries. The days of "I'm a banking PM, I can do a local government job" or vice versa are very much gone, unless you get lucky, or have a contact who ends up needing someone they can trust. Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with it - in fact I think its short sighted - but I've had to adjust to it to keep myself employed - I'm afraid you're going to have to too.

TAV

No, my buzz words are fine and I'm happily contracted away, the big problem is the majority of agents can't seem to read the very clear JOB TITLE shown at the top of each section. So instead of being called up for test roles I get called up for dev roles, pm roles, sys admin roles, dba roles, etc, etc.

Yes I have a reasonably broad skill set, and part of being a tester is being a jack of all trades as you need to build your environments, write your test harnesses and your documentation, go through specs highlighting problems, query database backends to make sure data is being stored correctly, etc, etc. But seriously, look at the fecking job titles once you have done your keyword search and try and not send me tulip that is blatantly not my expertise!!

[CalmEddie]

Start doing this tulip and you will never get a job. <snip> Leave this one well alone IMO

Thanks. That's a relief


I'm early 40s, 10 yrs contracting, 13 yrs overall PM related. The above are tightly related disciplines rather than skills. The people that need them know they are related. Agencies however, assume they are distinctly different things. It's perfectly possible to do them in parallel.

When working for a consultancy it's the norm. You might be working for consultancy A, and performing roles for 3 of their clients, some hrs per week doing programme management for client 1, some setting up a PMO for client 2, and running a couple of separate projects for client 3.

Many times I've been taken on by a clientco to run a programme containing 20+ projects and I've also been running two of the larger initial project within the programme. I enjoy this and it's very much how a senior PM rolls

The most frequent problem is the divide between a business and technical PM. It would seem the any mention of technical precludes you from a business PM role and vice versa.

[northernladuk]

Pardon my naivety, but I haven't been doing this! So while I've been fretting about not getting work, it's not me, it's just some ****wit with a 10th of my talents has been performing SEO on job searches? Sounds to me like the search engines are crap. Ah well. You learn something new all the time.

Start doing this tulip and you will never get a job. Google will blacklist the page when it sees this rubbish, even if it is embedded within a job site page and if it doesn't do you think the agents are going to be pleased by this? More often than not a search will highlight the words it finds and would YOU employ someone in a highly skilled professional job that does this kind of stupid trick? I think not. Leave this one well alone IMO

I do need to re-write my 3 page CV. But as what? I can do Programme Management, Portfolio and project management, PMO, Change management, business project management, technical project management, business analysis and a few others. There's no room to put all this on a CV, and having separate CV's means I just go for a role as one of them.

Erm isn't getting a role of one of them just the point? Their arn't many roles in contracting that wants a good all round guy, that just isn't how we roll. How old are you? I would argue your skills if you have 8 different skills as per the roles above and less than 15 years in contracting. Having done it doesn't make you are skilled. Even if you did a 6 month gig at each role by the time you have done all of them one it would be 4 years since you did the first. That won't look good. The only way I can imagine you get away with it is with a HUGE amount of artistic licence on your CV and don't get me started on that one!!!

[malvolio]

Does the 25 include the 1 on the bench you've just had?

Nope, years worked in IT with some level of management authority.

Anyway it wasn't a whole year - a big chunk I had a part time role, another big chunk was sorting out my mother's estate and I had some paid writing work. Not like I was sat at home watching telly all day - although I did do quite a bit of that as well...

[thunderlizard]

Does the 25 include the 1 on the bench you've just had?

[malvolio]

Then you are using the wrong buzz words?

define yourself. ie, "I am a Project Manager" and my specialist area would be "Banks". If you want to get the attention of an agent, you have to think like an agent - or a customer if you like. How many times do you scan past the first 2 pages of Google when looking for something on a personal basis?

As for the comment on varied skills etc - balderdash - right at this moment, clients are looking for experience of their own industries. The days of "I'm a banking PM, I can do a local government job" or vice versa are very much gone, unless you get lucky, or have a contact who ends up needing someone they can trust. Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with it - in fact I think its short sighted - but I've had to adjust to it to keep myself employed - I'm afraid you're going to have to too.

TAV

Depends what you're looking for. Treating all IT skills as single competencies groups is only helping you, not the client (of which I am one, remember - currently running a 72 man £10m a year IT department...). If I need a specific technical skillset that's what I'll ask for. If I need a manager, or a unit lead, I ask fro a manager first and a techniciand a distant second, but what I invariably get is a small pile of CVs limited to a single technical competency in my business area.

That's fine while there are loads of people on the bench, as there are now, but will fall apart of we get back to 2004-05 levels of hiring. Secondly the focus on sedctor specific skills means many very good people are locked out of the market altogether, if their particular sector - building, say, or the omotor industry - in meltdown. You guys need to stop talking to Human Remains and work with the hiring manager and procurement teams. And before you say you can't, try shifiting your sales approach from selling temporary staff to selling skilled service providers.

But hey, what do I know.... I've only been doing this for 25 years.

[CalmEddie]

Now, imagine what would happen, if you did your whole CV, then in the footer, or right at the bottom of the page, you typed "project manager" over and over and over (copy and paste) and happened to make that text 1pt font size, and colour it white, to blend in with the rest of the page?

Pardon my naivety, but I haven't been doing this! So while I've been fretting about not getting work, it's not me, it's just some ****wit with a 10th of my talents has been performing SEO on job searches? Sounds to me like the search engines are crap. Ah well. You learn something new all the time.

You may get a PM that's done nothing but banking for several years, you probably won't get someone with solid experience in a range of industries at a senior level who can do the PM role with his eyes shut and probably bring some other expertise to the table.

This is my biggest gripe. Project management is a truly universal skill. Well, proper project management anyway. Its biggest benefits come from not being influenced or compromised by the environment. Usually the closer people are to the technical details, the worse the project management turns out. An annoying number of times I've been hired to deliver the solution chosen by someone unqualified. The business case reads, "deploy XYZ solution" when it should really say "Solve ABC business problem".

right at this moment, clients are looking for experience of their own industries.

Don't I know it!!


My particular problem is I don't specialise. I am a good generalist, rather that being a guru in one skill, I'm very good in over a dozen, and together this is my strength. Unfortunately in the world of keyword searching, it seems the job market has gone specialist.
This increases the divide for me between the first line triage and the recruiter, so my CV can't seem to satisfy all of them.

In days gone by it would be personal relationships with agents who know how to spot a good person that would get me work.

I do need to re-write my 3 page CV. But as what? I can do Programme Management, Portfolio and project management, PMO, Change management, business project management, technical project management, business analysis and a few others. There's no room to put all this on a CV, and having separate CV's means I just go for a role as one of them.

[The Agents View]

You seriously think that we don't know this?

The amount of times I have agents call me up for roles that I couldn't do because they have done a buzz word search and actually not looked at my CV to see what I do is unbelievable...

Then you are using the wrong buzz words?

define yourself. ie, "I am a Project Manager" and my specialist area would be "Banks". If you want to get the attention of an agent, you have to think like an agent - or a customer if you like. How many times do you scan past the first 2 pages of Google when looking for something on a personal basis?

As for the comment on varied skills etc - balderdash - right at this moment, clients are looking for experience of their own industries. The days of "I'm a banking PM, I can do a local government job" or vice versa are very much gone, unless you get lucky, or have a contact who ends up needing someone they can trust. Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with it - in fact I think its short sighted - but I've had to adjust to it to keep myself employed - I'm afraid you're going to have to too.

TAV

[Tarquin Farquhar]

And why on earth would I be looking on Google for CV's?

Google might detect it, but none of the job board search engines do - trust me.....

Trust me, I'm an agent

OK. I might try it, thanks.

Though personally I think that's not where I need to work on. I get calls from agents. I don't get interviews. When I do work somewhere, they usually speak of me in superlatives (positive ones). So the bit I'm bad at is not getting noticed, not doing it, it's getting in. Story of my life.

[malvolio]

Can I give you all a tip, that will doubtless have me shunned by the recruitment industry, but nevertheless:

Recruitment companies use search engines to find candidates. We often search on very simple things - so if I'm looking for a Banking Project Manager, I simply type in (Boolean) Bank AND "project manager".

The way in which these search engines work, is to count occurances. So lets say your CV has 100 instances of "Project manager" in it, you will rank above someone who has 80 instances.

Now, imagine what would happen, if you did your whole CV, then in the footer, or right at the bottom of the page, you typed "project manager" over and over and over (copy and paste) and happened to make that text 1pt font size, and colour it white, to blend in with the rest of the page?

I'll leave you guys to work out the rest

That's exactly my point. You may get a PM that's done nothing but banking for several years, you probably won't get someone with solid experience in a range of industries at a senior level who can do the PM role with his eyes shut and probably bring some other expertise to the table. And quite probably someone I would rather hire than the suit from the City.

Not all that many years ago, you wouldn't even search the job boards, you would know which of your regular contractors had the skills. Heigh ho, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of blind commercialism.

[Fred Bloggs]

You seriously think that we don't know this?

The amount of times I have agents call me up for roles that I couldn't do because they have done a buzz word search and actually not looked at my CV to see what I do is unbelievable...

Yes, WHS.

[Ardesco]

Can I give you all a tip, that will doubtless have me shunned by the recruitment industry, but nevertheless:

Recruitment companies use search engines to find candidates. We often search on very simple things - so if I'm looking for a Banking Project Manager, I simply type in (Boolean) Bank AND "project manager".

The way in which these search engines work, is to count occurances. So lets say your CV has 100 instances of "Project manager" in it, you will rank above someone who has 80 instances.

Now, imagine what would happen, if you did your whole CV, then in the footer, or right at the bottom of the page, you typed "project manager" over and over and over (copy and paste) and happened to make that text 1pt font size, and colour it white, to blend in with the rest of the page?

I'll leave you guys to work out the rest

You seriously think that we don't know this?

The amount of times I have agents call me up for roles that I couldn't do because they have done a buzz word search and actually not looked at my CV to see what I do is unbelievable...

[The Agents View]

I've decided to put my CV online like this guy (done with Paint)

You know - That's actually quite cool. I guess it depends what you're looking for, but for originality of presentation, and general forward thinking, it hits a spot.

People I would actually see being interested in this kind of presentation are the googles and Pixars of this world.

That's also clearly not done in paint - it's more difficult to draw and write like a child than you might think - although certain posters on CUK seem to do a very good impression

[darmstadt]

I've decided to put my CV online like this guy (done with Paint)

[The Agents View]

Google would detect that ruse and therefore eliminate your CV from its listings.

And why on earth would I be looking on Google for CV's?

Google might detect it, but none of the job board search engines do - trust me.....