Reply to: DV Clearance question

[Mailman_1]

Which is precisely why (a) most major HMG programmes fail and (b) why we're trying to get the rules on clearance properly understood and applied by the people doing the hiring.

I disagree with (a). Most (90%+) of the higher ranking positions in the outsourcers who are awarded the HMG programmes are permanent staff of the outsourcing company. The contractors are usually the engineers and PM's. From the number of programmes i have seen fail across all of the top 5 outsourcing companies, the majority have been due to the beancounters underquoting to get the work in the bid phase and then cutting corners once they realise they wont make any money due to thier errors.

Regarding (b). Contractors with the correct clearance command a premium and are in contract most of the time. The outsourcers baulk at the rates the cleared contractors require and hold out for cheaper candidates. The cheaper candidates rarely appear and with the outsourcers being held to a timescale, there comes a cutoff period where the only options are to take on people who already hold the required clearance, or pay for properly cleared people to monitor the uncleared contractor therefore increasing the resourcing cost to the project even more.

[malvolio]

In this environment, the clearance level is of primary importance, secondly, the skillset required to do the job.

Which is precisely why (a) most major HMG programmes fail and (b) why we're trying to get the rules on clearance properly understood and applied by the people doing the hiring.

[Mailman_1]

I had DV up until 2005 but I couldn't find a suitable role that required it at the time, I'd kill for it now as the DV market is positively buoyant.

At the risk of being called a plank again for wanting to maintain my clearance, i only take cleared roles at the moment. If the role isnt what i do, chances are it pays more than what i do in the private sector. Therefore, i take it until a more suitable role arises. One of the pluses of having clearance is that you have a much higher chance of getting a contract due to the reduced pool of applicants. In this environment, the clearance level is of primary importance, secondly, the skillset required to do the job.

[gingerjedi]

Who in thier right mind would want to downgrade thier DV to an SC using this extraction method? The amount of time it takes to aquire DV and the chances of a contractor being nominated for DV clearance would mean that the chances of aquiring DV clearance a 2nd time would be very very limited.

Insisting that the new project transfers/holds and maintains your DV is the only way to go IMO.

I had DV up until 2005 but I couldn't find a suitable role that required it at the time, I'd kill for it now as the DV market is positively buoyant.

[Mailman_1]

I spoke to the DVA only last week reference this question. I was informed that the SC element of a DV can be extracted to produce an SC.

Who in thier right mind would want to downgrade thier DV to an SC using this extraction method? The amount of time it takes to aquire DV and the chances of a contractor being nominated for DV clearance would mean that the chances of aquiring DV clearance a 2nd time would be very very limited.

Insisting that the new project transfers/holds and maintains your DV is the only way to go IMO.

[s2budd]

I was informed of the below by DVA with regards to DV:
Can be transferred to another organisation if within 3 years of the date obtained. If not used then is valid for 12 months.

I all reality though I have no idea. I'm new to all this stuff. The above is just what I was informed last week.

[gingerjedi]

Which makes perfect sense.

Bit weird considering that it's a civil service team telling you that now I come to think on it.

DV doesn't insta lapse in most cases as I understand it, if it did then the jobs requesting current DV clearance would be even dafter than most job posts.

It's supposed to lapse when you leave post but in reality I've been told they give you 6 months as it cost so much. £12k the last I heard.

[TykeMerc]

I spoke to the DVA only last week reference this question. I was informed that the SC element of a DV can be extracted to produce an SC.

Which makes perfect sense.

Bit weird considering that it's a civil service team telling you that now I come to think on it.

DV doesn't insta lapse in most cases as I understand it, if it did then the jobs requesting current DV clearance would be even dafter than most job posts.

[s2budd]

I spoke to the DVA only last week reference this question. I was informed that the SC element of a DV can be extracted to produce an SC.

[Mailman_1]

Your DV will not lapse automatically when you leave the DV project. It depends on the vetting agency as to how long they will hold the clearance prior to lapsing it. This ranges from immediately to 12 months depending on the agencies individual standards.

If you require a min of SC to be in the new role, the new vetting agency will review/renew your SC while your DV is being considered. However, DV is independant of SC so a yr after using your DV (assuming you get it), your SC will lapse.

When you move on, if the role you are going to only requires SC, you will need to prompt the new company to transfer your DV. DV transfer is more expensive and time consuming than an SC transfer so they may be reluctant to do it. Thats assuming that the company you move to is able to hold a DV clearance.......

It's all very complicated.

You have to remember that it the civil service who are holding and maintaning your clearance. Although the vetting officers are very nice over the phone, they are not very proactive and need the odd push in the right direction to get things moving.

[gingerjedi]

SC won't just "expire". Do you think they would allow that to happen?

It's only time-limited to make sure they get the chance to check your clearance is still valid: if you've not broken any of the parameters, renewlal is largely automatic. It's a managed service, if your original 5-year term is coming to an end, DVA and the local SSO will make sure you do the form filling to get it renewed if you still need it.

Of course, if you're not working on a cleared site, you don't need it and it will drop off after 12 months.

My last role started with one month left on my SC and I had to prod the LSO to get it renewed, I would have been marched off site when it lapsed if I hadn't been proactive.

[malvolio]

Sorry, there appears to be some misunderstanding. If a contractor already holds SC clearance, then obtains DV clearance, SC clearance is no longer necessary (as DV supercedes it right?)

DV clearance lapses when you leave a DV site, so let's say our hypothetical contractor leaves a DV site and arrives at an SC site. His SC will have lapsed, and his DV is no longer valid so that lapses too, or is it the case that the SC site will transfer his DV clearance and that will remain current - even though the site only requires SC?

His DV lapses, but his clearance is still on record. It would be a pretty dim agent who can't see that a DV-cleared person is safe to work on an SC project.

Hang on, just spotted the basic flaw there....

Anyway, if you have just come from a DV role and haven't been anywhere else, I'm pretty sure SC wouldn't present any problems. You clearance is still on the DVA database and the project sponsor's SSO would be able to check it. The SC eexpiry is one year, and that would still be active.

[b0redom]

Sorry, there appears to be some misunderstanding. If a contractor already holds SC clearance, then obtains DV clearance, SC clearance is no longer necessary (as DV supercedes it right?)

DV clearance lapses when you leave a DV site, so let's say our hypothetical contractor leaves a DV site and arrives at an SC site. His SC will have lapsed, and his DV is no longer valid so that lapses too, or is it the case that the SC site will transfer his DV clearance and that will remain current - even though the site only requires SC?

[malvolio]

And since when have SC and DV been needed in parallel? SC allows you to see Secret material. DV allows you to see Top Secret material. Top Secret material includes all Secret material. How hard is that to understand?

[pmeswani]

Hi,
Let's suppose that :

• A contractor has SC clearance
• The contractor in question's SC clearance will expire next year
• The contractor in question is offered a DV cleared role

What happens to the contractors SC clearance if they then stay in that DV role until after the SC would have lapsed? Does this hypothetical contractor have to go through the pain of SC clearance again, or will DV superceed it?

All hypothetically speaking of course....

In some situations, some clients will take on the SC clearance as well as put you through DV. Maybe worth asking the clientco if they are prepared to do that in order to keep your SC clearance current.