Reply to: Professional day - How many hours?

[ITDJ]

Scales of Justice

In the contract negotiations, I don't mind a 40 hour week being quoted but prefer 5 professional working days. I think most clients expect 8 hours per day, these days. I almost always insist on a weekend/bank holiday working rate of 1½ or double time. If the agent declines, I point out that I will not be available for this without an agreed rate in advance (and I certainly won't work at standard rate).

At the start of the contract, I try to exceed the expectation; start early, finish late and make sure the boss/client sees this. I'll even do the odd weekend change "for free."

As time goes on and trust is built, I tend to keep a running balance in my head, like a balance. While I may book 8 hours per day on my timesheet, I tend to work a little more and keep the balance in the client's favour. Then, if I need to take a short day, I feel it's fair to do so. But I always keep the boss happy.

However, I know other contractors who bill every second to the client, regardless of the contract. If they step over the 40 hour notional figure by even a small margin, they bill. If they work a weekend, they bill at overtime rate. If they go over the 8 hour day, they bill at the overtime rate.

in the end, it depends how valuable you are. But ethically, I like to ensure the client gets value for money (and a bit more).

[zonkkk]

My guess is the agency are probably using a standard contract that covers more than one client.

I'd just ask for an amendment so it's a PWD and go from there.

Get it fixed.

They probably saw 8:30 - 16:30 and thought 8 * 5!

You should try to switch it to professional working day and get the actual times scrubbed.

Thanks. All updated now. The contract does state professional working day and no start/end times. Normal working hours are now 37.5h / week.

[MrMarkyMark]

7.5 hours is a minimum working day surely? Not a professional one.

Agreed.

One of my colleagues was once called in from the pub, when there was a late one going on.
He said "its at your own risk to export an emergency change, to Production, as I have quite a few drinks inside me."

Unsure whether you would say that was part of the "professional" working day, however.

The client I'm engaged by, currently, pays a "working day" for anything greater than 5 hours. I know quite a few others do the same.
I have used it to my advantage sometimes and never had any issues.

People remember who gets the job done and ask you back, for repeat business, its as simple as that.

[northernladuk]

My 'professional day' is 7.5h according to the company I'm working for so I'm doing more than I should.

7.5 hours is a minimum working day surely? Not a professional one.

[boxingbantz]

At my desk for 740am every morning and leave at 430. Take half hour away from my desk so that's near enough 8.5 hours.

My 'professional day' is 7.5h according to the company I'm working for so I'm doing more than I should.

[LondonManc]

I am in what I call a 'strange' situation. I have agreed a daily rate after client confirmed that normal working hours are 8:30-16:30 (with 30 min lunch break), which makes the working week 37.5h.
However the agency have written in the contract that the normal working week is 40h.

Are they trying to pull a fast one on me and when the time-sheets say 7.5/day would only pay me pro-rata?
I have not signed the contract yet and didn't have a chance to speak to them - got it late on Friday.

Get it fixed.

They probably saw 8:30 - 16:30 and thought 8 * 5!

You should try to switch it to professional working day and get the actual times scrubbed.

[FrontEnder]

I am in what I call a 'strange' situation. I have agreed a daily rate after client confirmed that normal working hours are 8:30-16:30 (with 30 min lunch break), which makes the working week 37.5h.
However the agency have written in the contract that the normal working week is 40h.

Are they trying to pull a fast one on me and when the time-sheets say 7.5/day would only pay me pro-rata?
I have not signed the contract yet and didn't have a chance to speak to them - got it late on Friday.

My guess is the agency are probably using a standard contract that covers more than one client.

I'd just ask for an amendment so it's a PWD and go from there.

[zonkkk]

I am in what I call a 'strange' situation. I have agreed a daily rate after client confirmed that normal working hours are 8:30-16:30 (with 30 min lunch break), which makes the working week 37.5h.
However the agency have written in the contract that the normal working week is 40h.

Are they trying to pull a fast one on me and when the time-sheets say 7.5/day would only pay me pro-rata?
I have not signed the contract yet and didn't have a chance to speak to them - got it late on Friday.

[Elliegirl]

from NLUK:

I'm the type that (arguably a bit stupid to some people) do what's needs to be done and 3/6 months later look back, say that was a tough gig and count good money I made. I'm happy and comfortably well off so life is good. We run in to these things from time to time and as contractors we have the flexibility to do something about it.

----

I like this a lot. My personal approach is to put in as many hours as it takes to do to the job to a high standard. I look at the money I earned before becoming a contractor, think of the people I've been able to help since, the quality of life I have, thank God for it all and get on with the work.

[captcavey]

Update

Having spoken to the contract manager and expressed how the contract was worded differently when it came to the signing of the contract to that which was talked about we now have Thursday's off in lieu. Goes to show that, although a contract is signed, you can still negotiate to a degree. Having said that I have been churning the work out for them, which I'm delighted to do as I enjoy the project and they are hiring me for that project. I pointed out that Thursdays were as much use to them regarding me as a chocolate teapot. The manager had been asking the other IT staff to find us stuff to do as we were simply keeping dust off of seats. Sensibility has won through and next time I sign a contract I will be reading it thoroughly even if time is a constraint!

Thank you all for your input and advice. *closes thread for another decade or so*

[LondonManc]

When I'm staying away, I aim to leave at 1pm on a Friday and put in as many hours as I want in the week to make up for that. If someone needs to stay late at project implementation time, I may as well do it if the other guy has a home to go to. It's part of being a human being as much as being a contractor.

Never set a precedent for your working hours; simply deliver what you've been ask to deliver in the time available. Accept that you'll have to work late occasionally but be happy that it'll be far less often than if you were a perm. Not done me much harm so far

[kevpuk]

I generally make it in around 9am (read: not before 9am, usually closer to 9.30am), although - ironically - on Monday's I tend to get from sometime between 8.30am when I drive up from home.
As for leaving, this is normally around 6-6.30pm, but through choice - current Client location means staying away in the week, so not in a hurry to get out (gym!).......and each day 30-60mins away from desk for lunch.
Client is more than happy with this approach - been onsite for >2yrs! - and I always WFH on Fridays, putting in a shorter day

[Old Greg]

I arrive between 8 and 9 and leave between 430 and 530. I take 30 to 90 minutes for lunch away from my desk.

[adubya]

I turn up when I want (within reason ), happens that this is before 8am. If times are quiet then I'll be off home 17:00 ish, if it's hands to the pumps then it will be (much) later. Lunch == grab a sarnie and eat at desk so minimal time.

So average day is 9hrs. Then there's 3hrs of travelling (in total) per day. Tonight was longer as my train broke down so took 2hrs to get home. But that's not my client's problem, it's mine.

[WTFH]

I dispute that as the flights and leaving airport were stipulated by the company. If I were being "fair" then I could say "it normally takes me x-amount of time to get to the London based office ergo I will subtract that from the total time I'm with you" (although I think they'd look at me funny for using the 'ergo').

We arrived in the country where we were working at 09:00 (or there abouts) and in the office an hour later. So are you saying that day started at 10:00? If so then giving 5 hours of your life away seems very charitable...

You can dispute it all you want. The client is paying you to work for them. Where you choose to live is not their problem. Unless you have agreed that travel time is included in your rate, then it is not.
Using your logic, you could turn round and say that when you are staying away from home you are working for them 24 hours a day.

In past gigs I have left home at 3am on a Monday to drive to a client site. They are paying you to work, not to travel.
In my current and last gig, they stipulated that travel should be done (where possible) within normal hours, so you shouldn't have to leave home before 6.30am and you should be home by 7pm. There are exceptions, but it is something agreed beforehand.