Reply to: Asking for a payrise - just started?

[CodeMonkey76]

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[Lewis]

On the subject of what fees you negotiate, how do you guys go about talking money?

Say an agent calls you for a role and asks you how much you want (or how much you were earning before), do you straight away tell them how much you want, or do you try and fish for the best figure from them?

I've never been a great negiator myself, so have wanted to improve in my negotiations because I think I undersold myself on the last 2 big contracts. Having met a couple of really seasoned contractors, they suggested that you should try and switch the tables and try and get them to name their price first?

Just interested on peoples' thoughts here...

People write whole books on negotiating!!

I've been doing this for 10 years so I know exactly what the rate range is in my industry/technology and I can place myself in that band based on my skill so I know pretty closely what I am worth and won't accept below that. This is what you are now learning from your seasoned colleagues.

If you're not sure on this then look on jobserve and ask around. Find out what your rate range is and think about where you are in that range. If you old rate is low don't tell the agent. Just say "I am looking for £x". If your old rate was good then say "I was on £y and I won't go below that".

You need to apply for roles where you know the client will pay what you want so asking the maximum rate the client will pay is a good start. i.e. you need to be going for the right roles - if they are paying twice what you want, probably they want someone better than you and vica versa.

[Fred Bloggs]

Back in the land of permiedom I found out by accident that I was on 35% less than the bloke next to me. It ended with me resigning after ~20 years in the company.

Now that I'm contracting, I prefer not to know what the other guys get, but on the hand, I try to make sure I have a reasonable idea what the prospective client will pay before I name my rate. I'm usually happy to be negotiated slightly downward rather than my rate being accepted immediately and then wondering if I could have got a bit more.

[basshead]

On the other hand, I think it's entirely OK for contractors at the same company to discuss their rates.

Except where there are confidentiality clauses in contracts of course

[BamBam]

On the subject of what fees you negotiate, how do you guys go about talking money?

Say an agent calls you for a role and asks you how much you want (or how much you were earning before), do you straight away tell them how much you want, or do you try and fish for the best figure from them?

I've never been a great negiator myself, so have wanted to improve in my negotiations because I think I undersold myself on the last 2 big contracts. Having met a couple of really seasoned contractors, they suggested that you should try and switch the tables and try and get them to name their price first?

Just interested on peoples' thoughts here...

[d000hg]

On the other hand, I think it's entirely OK for contractors at the same company to discuss their rates. If you turn out to be on a lot less, it at least gives you a ballpark what you could ask for. In fact, I never understood why people are so secretive about their salaries. It's only money, not your sex-life!

[BolshieBastard]

I cant believe the OP put this thread up!

Why do some 'contractors' think they should be paid the same rate as those they work with?

If you want pay equality, go get a permie job! Otherwise accept that better \ more experienced contractors will probably always get a higher rate.

[Pingu]

Robbed and mugged

A few quid an hour is not really worth feeling down about.

When I was a virgin contractor ( heh, happens to everyone ) I got to site and found out that the other 6 guys were on £50 a day more. Since the contract lasted 6 months the other guys were over 6k up on me.

The way I got over it was to check the web, and the fact that I'd come from a permie job and earned my entire years salary in 6 months.

It took away the sting, although I learned for next time!

Despite what anyone might say, pitching yourself at the right price is both an art and a science.

Good luck for next time tho!

[Lewis]

Yes, I can see that. It's just that they cleared it without any fuss at all, and I'm pretty sure that's because it was well within their range. I'm pretty sure I could have got away with £340, for example.

A lesson in negotiation maybe. If you'd asked for £340 the worst they would have said is "sorry we can only stretch to £320". I've never come accross a client who's said "£340 how dare you! I am so insulted, your contract is terminated". Often I have asked for an amount and we have amicably compromised on something lower.

[dang65]

Was that from the client? In which case you may need to add on agency markup. So your £320 could mean the client pays £370. Also the fact they accept a range up to £430, doesn't mean they'll simply pay that by dint of you asking.

Yes, I can see that. It's just that they cleared it without any fuss at all, and I'm pretty sure that's because it was well within their range. I'm pretty sure I could have got away with £340, for example.

But there's no point worrying about it because I was pleased to get £320 at the time.

On the occasions when I've really struggled to get an increase, I've always had the impression it was the agency not wanting to lose the client by asking for increases for their contractors. I wouldn't ask for an increase if I didn't think the client would be happy to pay it, so when the agent says no, or offers a tiny increase, I read it as an agency issue. (And get out soon after!)

[AZZIK]

Second week into my current position and I have learned that the other contractors are on more money than me. Only 3 quid an hour but money is money.

I have not signed any contract yet as agency seems to be dragging its arse. How can I go about asking to be brought onto the same level as the others?

If you want to negotiate, you do it before you sign the contract. If you mess about now, they will get rid of you and get some to replace you. Simple. U can ask for a rise at renewal.

[NotAllThere]

... "This rate increase can be authorised as it is well within our accepted range of 290-430 p/d"!! ...

Was that from the client? In which case you may need to add on agency markup. So your £320 could mean the client pays £370. Also the fact they accept a range up to £430, doesn't mean they'll simply pay that by dint of you asking.

[pmeswani]

It can send you a bit mad thinking how much other people are getting. Or send them a bit mad thinking about how much you are getting. As above, you have to remember that you were happy when you accepted this rate, and negotiate with confidence at renewal time.

A couple of years ago I asked for a raise at renewal from 300 p/d to 320 p/d and was pleased it went through smoothly, only to be accidentally copied in on an email about it which said something like, "This rate increase can be authorised as it is well within our accepted range of 290-430 p/d"!!

Couldn't believe how much I'd been underselling myself, but on the other hand I'd been quite chuffed with 320 p/d. Got over it, in the end.

I put in a rate increase for the role i am in now of £10 p/h. Have also been applying for other roles as well. I doubt that I would get it, but I am also hoping that the job I am being interviewed for next week will come through as that would pay somewhat more than what I am getting right now.

[dang65]

It can send you a bit mad thinking how much other people are getting. Or send them a bit mad thinking about how much you are getting. As above, you have to remember that you were happy when you accepted this rate, and negotiate with confidence at renewal time.

A couple of years ago I asked for a raise at renewal from 300 p/d to 320 p/d and was pleased it went through smoothly, only to be accidentally copied in on an email about it which said something like, "This rate increase can be authorised as it is well within our accepted range of 290-430 p/d"!!

Couldn't believe how much I'd been underselling myself, but on the other hand I'd been quite chuffed with 320 p/d. Got over it, in the end.

[snaw]

Tough tittie. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

If I was your manager and you came and asked me for a £3 raise, after a week I'd show you the exit tout sweet. Without even asking why you wanted one.