Reply to: How does time work on hourly rate?

[malvolio]

The contact may say "130 days from 1st April", but this is unlikely.

Indeed. However 90% of the time the client manager's budget submission to his financial authority to approve the spend will have been worded exactly like that - "I require n days effort at a maximum £x per day". That gives a maximum value of the contract to the agency who then take off their margin and divide the reminder by a round number of days to get the offered day rate. Not forgetting of course that most of the time the value of £x above has been set by the agencies themselves via the "normal market rate for the job" on the open market. Confusing, isn't it...

The bathroom building analogy still holds - if you hire a plumber you ask "How much to completely build this bathroom", you don't ask "What is the maximum whole number of weeks it will take and how much do you charge a week". And the difference between the two, where the latter is used because nobody knows the answer to "How long", is the difference between a contractor role and a pseudo permie one.

[NotAllThere]

One word of advice - tell the client and the agent before you sign the contract that you've a holiday booked, but don't tell the agent before you've seen the client.

The agent may simply not put you forward, as he can't be bothered to talk to the client.

[Mallam]

Hi Mike,

Have you discussed this with the client?

To answer you question "just wondering how it all seemed to work"....there's no hard and fast rules.

It's like the Cannonball Run. First rule, there are no rules.

When you are a permi, there are rules.

Please speak with your client. They will explain their requirements.

If you are still concerned "how it all seemed to work"...stick to permi.

Thanks to you all.

I have discussed nothing with the Client yet, not having had chance to speak to them, I uploaded my CV to one of the big sites and had a Pimp (Starting to get there now) contact me with the offer. It sounded good and in my area. I told him about my already booked family holiday and he said he didnt think it would be a problem, but would speak with the Client. I have not heard back yet (though we have easter in the middle).

[BrowneIssue]

A couple of years ago I booked a holiday. No holiday insurance, independent outfit.

They wrote down the wrong date.

When the final cheque cleared they phoned me and said I had put wrong date on the letter I wrote with the cheque.

To cut a long story short, we never got to go on a 2 week holiday and we got none of the money back.

So I stayed in work. By 9:15 on the Tuesday of the 2nd week, I had re-earned the cost of that holiday.

Holidays are for wimps.

[BrowneIssue]

I'd love to have a holiday, but every time I get free of one client, another client pops up with an offer I can't refuse

I love the final sad smiley. We all know how you feel, but you know there's no sympathy headed your way.

So, Mallam, there's your lesson. Tell the agency / client before you sign the contract about your holiday and the chances are that nobody will mind, except you lose a few weeks' dosh. But better is to book a holiday that starts after this contract period.

[NickFitz]

Sorry about the sarcastic reply initially, but it was really one hell of a kicking after my first posting.

Also, I may be a little vague cos I have not seen the contract, only an email from the agency saying 6 months contract nn£ per hour. I just wondered whether it was an exact 6 months date to date or a number of hours.

Stick around, you'll get used to it

Other than that, what BrowneIssue said.

As a contractor, whether on an hourly or daily rate, you bill for the work you do. If you take time off, you can't bill for it. A contract duration of x months implies that they expect you to be available throughout that period, but doesn't necessarily commit you to doing a specific number of hours or days - just to be available to the client during that time.

Example: I am offered a contract working for a client for a period of three months. In the middle of that period there is a conference lasting three days which I wish to attend as it will be of long-term benefit to my own professional development.

So I tell the client that I won't be available on those three days. I clearly can't bill the client for those three days, as I'm not doing anything for them.

But if they decide that losing those three days means that I won't be able to fulfill the requirements necessary to complete their project, they will hire somebody else. They don't care what I'm spending the time on: all they care about is getting the job done by their own target date. If, on the other hand, they believe that those three days won't affect the chance of meeting their own deadlines, then they won't mind saving themselves three days-worth of my rate.

Think of it as if you hired a builder: if they don't turn up to fit the new kitchen and bathroom for three days because they've gone somewhere, it doesn't matter a damn to you if they're at a conference that will make them a better builder, or on the beach: the point is, they're not doing the work you need doing, so you don't expect to be billed for those days.

As to whether the client decides to extend the term of the contract by three days, or simply demands that the work be complete by the day they expect: the customer is always right. If a builder told you after starting the job that you would have to put up with a half-completed job for longer than you wished because they wanted to go on holiday, you might not be able to do anything about it, but you would certainly form an opinion about them, and would pass that opinion on to others if asked about the advisability of employing that builder. If they told you up front that they wouldn't be able to move the job along for those few days, you might still be happy to hire them because they were the best person for the job.

If there's one thing people hate in business, it's surprises. Tell them up front that you're going to be unavailable for those two weeks, and they'll almost certainly be perfectly OK with it, maybe even re-organising their own schedules accordingly. Start on the contract and then suddenly spring it on them, and they'll hate your guts.

Being a contractor might mean that you can indulge yourself in decent holidays, but you need to arrange them around the needs of your clients - it's not like being a permie who can just book holiday time whenever. If this is something you've already arranged and now find overlaps with the time when your client expects you to be working, then talk to the client sooner rather than later. If they can't or won't work around it, then bite the bullet, take the money, and go on holiday another time.

I'd love to have a holiday, but every time I get free of one client, another client pops up with an offer I can't refuse

[max]

Hi guys,

I am considering an hourly rate contract for 6 months. Can someone please advise how this works.

i.e. Can you bill 8 hours a day and contract ends after 6 months.

I want a 2 week holiday in the middle, does that mean that contract will be for 5.5 months?

Or does all this depend upon the contract and the person giving it.

I just assumed that most contracts would be for the period of a project.

Bit rambling, but newbie as you will have guessed and just wondering how it all seemed to work.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Have you discussed this with the client?

To answer you question "just wondering how it all seemed to work"....there's no hard and fast rules.

It's like the Cannonball Run. First rule, there are no rules.

When you are a permi, there are rules.

Please speak with your client. They will explain their requirements.

If you are still concerned "how it all seemed to work"...stick to permi.

[Platypus]

Thanks Platypus, that is more like the information I was hoping to get. So does it work like

Contract is for 6 months = 26 Weeks = 130 Days or 1040Hrs. (At 8 hrs per day)
I want 2 weeks holiday

Therefore contract still ends in 130 days time, however I guess I have 2 options

1. Work 120 Days at 8 hours a day (only get paid for 960 hours) or
2. Work 120 Days at ~8.66 hours a day (get paid for 1040 hours)

Am I thinking straight with regard to this

thanks

Mike

BI is right: the contract ends on the end date.

Your mission is to work as many billable hours as the client will allow between now and then. They may not allow more than 8hrs / day (check the contract). They may not wish you to have 2 weeks hols in the middle (check beforehand). They may be flexible.

Personally, I'd make hay while you have a contract and skip the holiday if possible.

[Mallam]

Many thanks for clarification people.

Sorry about the sarcastic reply initially, but it was really one hell of a kicking after my first posting.

Also, I may be a little vague cos I have not seen the contract, only an email from the agency saying 6 months contract nn£ per hour. I just wondered whether it was an exact 6 months date to date or a number of hours.

[BrowneIssue]

The contact may say "130 days from 1st April", but this is unlikely.

Indeed. The gig I have now was specified as "120 working days". By the time I got to sign it, it had evolved into "6 calendar months".

It is just so much easier for the thick tarts in HR and the bone-idle agents if the end date is just a X on the calendar.

[TheFaQQer]

Completely wrong. The contract will say:

"For six months starting 1st April to 31st August".

If you take two weeks off in the middle, it will end 31st August.

If you have to work weekends in the middle, it will end 31st August.

If you have to do 12 hours a day, it will end 31st August.

If you do short days, it will end 31st August.

The contact may say "130 days from 1st April", but this is unlikely.

[BrowneIssue]

So does it work like

Contract is for 6 months = 26 Weeks = 130 Days or 1040Hrs. (At 8 hrs per day)
I want 2 weeks holiday

Therefore contract still ends in 130 days time

Am I thinking straight with regard to this

Completely wrong. The contract will say:

"For six months starting 1st April to 31st August".

If you take two weeks off in the middle, it will end 31st August.

If you have to work weekends in the middle, it will end 31st August.

If you have to do 12 hours a day, it will end 31st August.

If you do short days, it will end 31st August.

[BrowneIssue]

Wow, though I expected some possible flack, the vitriol that has been posted is very impressive.

flak

remarkably restrained, compared to usual

I hope to one day be as bitter as the majority of posts above and be able to join your lofty ranks

Suggestion: don't ask for advice and then whinge. That's permie behaviour.

[BrowneIssue]

I am considering an hourly rate contract for 6 months. Can someone please advise how this works.

Option 1. You do what the contract says and they give you money. You like this and repeat it until your ex-wife owns a pension, a nice car and a big house.

Option 2. You whinge about the contract terms, don't do what it says, put yourself in breach of contract, get sacked, give the rest of us a bad name and then go back to being permie.

i.e. Can you bill 8 hours a day and contract ends after 6 months.

You work the hours the contract states and then bill for those hours you worked. The contract ends when the contract says it ends.

I want a 2 week holiday in the middle, does that mean that contract will be for 5.5 months?

Holiday? Contractor? You're losing me here. You have a 6 month contract and you intend to work only 24 of those weeks? Suit yourself. Two weeks' money lost, that is.

I just assumed that most contracts would be for the period of a project.

Fancy a 5,000 word essay on IT project management and project end dates? No? The contract duration is arbitrary and usually determined by HR policy.

[thunderlizard]

Are you a troll? I can't believe someone really needs this explaining...?

That's not such a stupid question. It might sound like a stupid question if you've allowed the bum-on-seat agencies to brainwash you into accepting that their standard way of charging is the only one. But for somebody just setting out and ploughing their own furrow, thinking "I'll be putting in 5.5 months' worth of hours so maybe I should have a contract to provide 5.5 months' worth of hours" isn't so unbelievable is it?

I think it's a perfectly fair question, and one to which I would answer "you're the supplier; you set the terms; you decided which one it is, but make sure the client understands".

But usually, Platypus's answer is what happens. The 6 month contract is usually a framework agreement setting out the terms under which work is done, for that duration. You might average 20 hours per week within that framework; you might average 60; but the agreement expires after 6 months regardless of how many hours have been worked & charged.