Reply to: Interview Expenses?

[abc]

Can you point me at the thread 'cos I wanna contribute - but I can't find it (I must be being particularly stupid today.)

Yes - the chunk of text below is pasted from the thread I mentioned:

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30th March 2007, 09:44 #1
pedro
Not worth listening to


Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13 Charging for interviews?

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After conducting two back to back interviews my boss came out of the conference room and said 'What a waste of £600'
The candidates had been put forward by two of the S3 agencies, and according to my boss, a £300 charge for phone interviews is fairly standard practice.
I have never charged for an interview, even where significant travel and expense has been involved. It seems that agencies may have been billing prospective clients however.
Do any of you guys charge for interviews?

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This makes me think every time an agent/EB wants me to go to an interview...and not deal with certain agencies also.

Cheers

[DS23]

But not too short on pointlessm sarcasm with no constructive input on the topic in question, I see. I guess it takes a big person who has something constructive to say to make a small person with nothing to say appear as small as they actually are, I suppose.

strange, i thought my sarcasm was suitably pointed. i'll try the opposite tack: you appear to suffer from an alarming lack of humility and brevity.

[DodgyAgent]

Well, if that's the case, you've failed miserably. Even the PCG affiliates are abusing contractors, in some cases. The Agencywatch (why is it called that?) has not culminated into much, EBs are as abusive as ever, more even.

Now we've got to worry about EBs charging clients to send us to interviews at our expense.

So what exactly have you achieved? I can't see the evidence at all.

Please enlighten us, for the benefit of the CUK board and newbies who are reading this site and are just starting out or have been thinking of contracting.

Is that true? can we now start charging contractors for going to interviews?

[Denny]

QED...

And just for the record, the bulk of my input to the PCG has been and continues to be around changing the client/agency/contractor paradigm with the specific intention of reducing the control that the agencies (sorry, smacked wrist, EBs) wield over the market.

Well, if that's the case, you've failed miserably. Even the PCG affiliates are abusing contractors, in some cases. The Agencywatch (why is it called that?) has not culminated into much, EBs are as abusive as ever, more even.

Now we've got to worry about EBs charging clients to send us to interviews at our expense.

So what exactly have you achieved? I can't see the evidence at all.

Please enlighten us, for the benefit of the CUK board and newbies who are reading this site and are just starting out or have been thinking of contracting.

[malvolio]

Not everyone takes notice of you Malvolio, as you so arrogantly assume. Many of those who claim they do on here are probably scared stiff of crossing you in case you launch a vitriolic attack on them in the same way as you have with me in the past, and based on the way you kick newbies in the teeth whenever they post on here.

You seem to complete ignore the fact that the poster to my response was very rude to me. Or doesn't that count with you?

Instead of this kind of post, M, why don't you put all your energies and efforts into supporting the broad church that makes up the contracting community instead of batting for the recruitment side! You ought to be ashamed of yourself for representing the PCG - the C stands for Contractors don't you know!

As for people listening to you: well wake up and smell the coffee. Last time you attacked me last time, I got a flurry of PMs supporting me and telling me that they thought you were an arrogant twerp.

If people listened to you so much, which they don't, I suspect, why haven't the entire brollie using contractor community gone limited by now? You keep claiming that ir35 is dead but they clearly have been advised that it isn't or else they simply don't trust your advice.

If you really thought people were ignoring me, why attack me at all with your patronising gesturing and your outright attacks on me in your renewed attempt to rid me from this board again.

Do get your priorities in order, M

QED...


That wasn't an attack, it was an attempt to help you get your point across, but since you are determined not to listen, then treat it as one. I really don't give a deletive expleted what you think any more.

And just for the record, the bulk of my input to the PCG has been and continues to be around changing the client/agency/contractor paradigm with the specific intention of reducing the control that the agencies (sorry, smacked wrist, EBs) wield over the market. Sadly you're so far up your own fundament you can't see that, nor will you listen to any opinion that contradicts your own stupidly narrow and - for 99.9% of contractors - commercially irrelevant one.

Had you done a bit more research in your short sojourn on the PCG fora you would have found exactly what my position is and has been since day 1 - but it can be summarised as "the agencies are distorting the market so that you can only buy three month chunks of ASP .Net C++ experience when what you need is a website designer for three weeks". Hardly supporting the EB model. Then again I have taken the time to understand how their market works - know your enemy, perhaps.

But then that would be lost on you, wouldn't it.

Similarly my stance on this board has been totally consistent for the last four years - you are in business so behave like it, IR35 is easily avoidable since it is so badly worded and the conditions for avoiding it are well understood, and if you want to learn then fine, we'll pitch in, but don't expect to be spoonfed like some dumb permie.

And for the record, Malvolio is a construct and a social experiement. He is not me. Sadly, you are you.

[Denny]

Denny, the problem is that even when you are right - which you sometimes are - it makes no difference because nobody's listening any more. Given the attitude demonstrated by the above, that's hardly surprising. You have the gall to call me arrogant and patronising, which I probably am, but at least people listen to me and take notice.

You should go away and reinvent your persona and get reincarnated. You have much to offer the ill-informed, but there's no point in being enormously well read on the subject if you can't pass the information on, is there?

Not everyone takes notice of you Malvolio, as you so arrogantly assume. Many of those who claim they do on here are probably scared stiff of crossing you in case you launch a vitriolic attack on them in the same way as you have with me in the past, and based on the way you kick newbies in the teeth whenever they post on here.

You seem to complete ignore the fact that the poster to my response was very rude to me. Or doesn't that count with you?

Instead of this kind of post, M, why don't you put all your energies and efforts into supporting the broad church that makes up the contracting community instead of batting for the recruitment side! You ought to be ashamed of yourself for representing the PCG - the C stands for Contractors don't you know!

As for people listening to you: well wake up and smell the coffee. Last time you attacked me last time, I got a flurry of PMs supporting me and telling me that they thought you were an arrogant twerp.

If people listened to you so much, which they don't, I suspect, why haven't the entire brollie using contractor community gone limited by now? You keep claiming that ir35 is dead but they clearly have been advised that it isn't or else they simply don't trust your advice.

If you really thought people were ignoring me, why attack me at all with your patronising gesturing and your outright attacks on me in your renewed attempt to rid me from this board again.

Do get your priorities in order, M

[malvolio]

But not too short on pointlessm sarcasm with no constructive input on the topic in question, I see. I guess it takes a big person who has something constructive to say to make a small person with nothing to say appear as small as they actually are, I suppose.

Good to know you appreciate my input.

Denny, the problem is that even when you are right - which you sometimes are - it makes no difference because nobody's listening any more. Given the attitude demonstrated by the above, that's hardly surprising. You have the gall to call me arrogant and patronising, which I probably am, but at least people listen to me and take notice.

You should go away and reinvent your persona and get reincarnated. You have much to offer the ill-informed, but there's no point in being enormously well read on the subject if you can't pass the information on, is there?

[Denny]

i didn't and i don't see why i should - that is quite an ego you have there.

and what a shame that is - we are a bit short on tortuous diatribes these days.

But not too short on pointlessm sarcasm with no constructive input on the topic in question, I see. I guess it takes a big person who has something constructive to say to make a small person with nothing to say appear as small as they actually are, I suppose.

Good to know you appreciate my input.

[DS23]

As you know

i didn't and i don't see why i should - that is quite an ego you have there.

I don't normally reply on this forum

and what a shame that is - we are a bit short on tortuous diatribes these days.

[oracleslave]

[QUOTE=abc;337905]

all agents who might post here are going to just admit to it, when they know that it would not help them to achieve their objective.

What is this objective that these hidden agents have?

[DodgyAgent]

[QUOTE=abc;337905]

Confused or just disingenuous?

How do you manage to calculate that number with such precision?
You've got some magic program that can convert a randomly chosen User name into a real identity have you?

I exclude your good self from this of course, as you are at least honest enough to admit that you are an agent, which is nice. But in my opinion it would be quite naive to expect that all agents who might post here are going to just admit to it, when they know that it would not help them to achieve their objective.

We all know that the average agent tells a lie three times before breakfast, just to limber up for the day ahead.

I am the only one trust me . I can smell an agent from a mile off and I probably like them less than anyone else on this site. After all it is the contractors who make me money, agents are simply irritating nobodies trying to steal my business.

[abc]

[QUOTE=DodgyAgent;337818]

With only one regular agent posting?????

Confused or just disingenuous?

How do you manage to calculate that number with such precision?
You've got some magic program that can convert a randomly chosen User name into a real identity have you?

I exclude your good self from this of course, as you are at least honest enough to admit that you are an agent, which is nice. But in my opinion it would be quite naive to expect that all agents who might post here are going to just admit to it, when they know that it would not help them to achieve their objective.

We all know that the average agent tells a lie three times before breakfast, just to limber up for the day ahead.

[DodgyAgent]

[QUOTE=abc;337430]

As you know, I don't normally reply on this forum but I feel strongly about this issue, and decided to demystify some of the pro-recruiter, anti contractor advice posted on this site.

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Yes you are not the only one who has noticed this bias, I sometimes wonder if the bulletin board should really be called "Agents/EBs UK".

With only one regular agent posting?????

[NotAllThere]

They are not representing the agency they are representing themselves.

Certainly my view. Which is why I'm always happy to discuss rates and margins with the client.

[abc]

[QUOTE=Denny;336239]As you know, I don't normally reply on this forum but I feel strongly about this issue, and decided to demystify some of the pro-recruiter, anti contractor advice posted on this site.

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Yes you are not the only one who has noticed this bias, I sometimes wonder if the bulletin board should really be called "Agents/EBs UK".