Reply to: Contracting rates in USA?

[jamesbrown]

I imagine safest way to do it is have all the flights and hotel and visa waiver all arranged in advance, and print out a nice email stating the purpose of your trip as "meetings only - no productive work" to show at the border.

You don't really have a choice on the former as ESTA is completed in advance. On the latter, yes, that won't hurt. You can play it down, but if you are sent back, you will need a visa next time. Personally, I would think twice about travelling to the US at the moment (and most of my clients are there).

[willendure]

No, visa waiver (I mean, in general, not WTFH). However, you cannot do "productive" work on a visa waiver (or even a B-1 business visa). Meetings are fine. Sitting at a computer and writing code is not fine. That said, with the current state of things, I'm not sure I'd want to explain the situation

But you ran a workshop and that sounds like real work to me (I mean WTFH did)! But obviously you didn't give that impression at the border...

I imagine safest way to do it is have all the flights and hotel and visa waiver all arranged in advance, and print out a nice email stating the purpose of your trip as "meetings only - no productive work" to show at the border.

[willendure]

Well, they didn't go for the contract idea at all - hard no. They already have employees in UK and Europe and a set up with an umbrella org that acts as employer of record.

However, the whole thing seemed pretty positive to me, so I have decided to keep an open mind and see what happens, and might end up as a permie - but in this market things could be a lot worse. There would be a couple of rounds of tech interviews between here and there. You never know I could even get sponsored for a green card and spend some time over there in the long run...!

It would complicate things for me with my Ltd, since the Ltd own the office in which I work and has a mortgage on it. I could probably lease it from myself or something.

[WTFH]

No, visa waiver (I mean, in general, not WTFH). However, you cannot do "productive" work on a visa waiver (or even a B-1 business visa). Meetings are fine. Sitting at a computer and writing code is not fine. That said, with the current state of things, I'm not sure I'd want to explain the situation

I'd written a whole diatribe on it, but on reflection, your comments are more succinct.

[jamesbrown]

How was that arranged for you to do actual work in the US? I always thought that was a no no - like if I do get this contract and there is a team meeting, I would have to attend unpaid and under no circumstances do any actual work whilst on US soil, or immigration won't let me in the country. Did they get you a green card, or is there some temporary arrangement they can do it under?

No, visa waiver (I mean, in general, not WTFH). However, you cannot do "productive" work on a visa waiver (or even a B-1 business visa). Meetings are fine. Sitting at a computer and writing code is not fine. That said, with the current state of things, I'm not sure I'd want to explain the situation

[willendure]

Yup. The time it happened with me, the client needed me to deliver some workshops in the US, I wasn’t just attending meetings, the reason they wanted me was because they needed me, and not someone else. Cost a bit extra in accountancy fees and wasn’t massively profitable, but I racked up a load of expenses on the trips, and had some fun experiences.
IR35 wasn’t an issue, because we knew what we were doing, as did the legal and tax teams.

How was that arranged for you to do actual work in the US? I always thought that was a no no - like if I do get this contract and there is a team meeting, I would have to attend unpaid and under no circumstances do any actual work whilst on US soil, or immigration won't let me in the country. Did they get you a green card, or is there some temporary arrangement they can do it under?

[WTFH]

Yeah, they will almost certainly want to 1099 the OP, not that is really matters in the end if the work is being done outside the US by a non-US Person. There is no tax liability and no reporting requirement, but most US clients won't have much clue about this. Especially if they are looking for a permie (aside: methinks the OP is far too confident about their IR35 status, given the client wants a permie)

Yup. The time it happened with me, the client needed me to deliver some workshops in the US, I wasn’t just attending meetings, the reason they wanted me was because they needed me, and not someone else. Cost a bit extra in accountancy fees and wasn’t massively profitable, but I racked up a load of expenses on the trips, and had some fun experiences.
IR35 wasn’t an issue, because we knew what we were doing, as did the legal and tax teams.

[jamesbrown]

Yes, I will present the whole proposal as a B2B arrangement, and if it does not go my way, no problemo. A contract that makes the project based, B2B nature of it explicit and reviewed for IR35 red flags and so on. Might be a complete dud, but given they didn't find a US person already, they might be running a bit short of options. I know from previous experience it can be tough to recruit for niche skills.

Yeah, but that really only works if it isn’t a facade. Something to bear in mind with US clients is that they’ll never speak to HMRC and that isn’t necessarily in your favour when they were recruiting for a permie and there’s a record of that somewhere. It could be worse, though. Anyway, document your WPs.

FWIW, the only two situations I’ve seen US companies recruit from outside the US is where they’re looking to save money or they do genuinely want a very niche skillset (typically PhDs, not devs). Historically, most of the former and some of the latter was H-1B employees. If you’re in the former group, they will be more price sensitive obvs.

[jamesbrown]

BTW What is a 1099?

It’s a US tax form filed by companies who paid independent contractors to report income to the IRS. Not relevant to a non-US Person performing work outside the US, which is considered “non US source income” and has no reporting requirement or tax to withhold. But many US clients won’t have a clue about payments to individuals outside the US, corporate wrapper or otherwise - as I said before, the US market is wide and deep - so most will treat you like a US Person and file a 1099 incorrectly, leaving you to clean up the mess.

[willendure]

BTW What is a 1099?

[willendure]

Yes, I will present the whole proposal as a B2B arrangement, and if it does not go my way, no problemo. A contract that makes the project based, B2B nature of it explicit and reviewed for IR35 red flags and so on. Might be a complete dud, but given they didn't find a US person already, they might be running a bit short of options. I know from previous experience it can be tough to recruit for niche skills.

[oliverson]

I recently finished up on a lengthy contract with a US firm, fully remote, outside IR35 as no physical presence, and me and QDOS calling the shots, UK timezone, etc. with the odd call on an evening if one of their US clients needed support in an afternoon (their time)

Invoiced in USD (no VAT) and paid into my USD bank account. Rate $800, which I understand if I'd stayed on would be around $ 840. It's a rate I was more than happy with as the exchange rate through much of that time was very favourable, unlike now as I've just taken a look. Dreadful at the moment.

I think this firm had contractors from numerous countries, nobody was 'forced' into the US way of doing things, just a simple b2b arrangement, invoices submitted and paid promptly.

[jamesbrown]

Be careful you don't end up in the US tax system.
You'll know that it's happening if you have to fill out a W9.
The you'll be filling out a 1040 and 1099.
Oh, and a 401(k) if a pension is involved.

What I'm trying to say is: don't assume that a one man band based in the UK is going to be treated as a limited company, because that's not really how US contractors work. If you're working for a US company, they will probably want to treat you the same way their US contractors are treated.

Yeah, they will almost certainly want to 1099 the OP, not that is really matters in the end if the work is being done outside the US by a non-US Person. There is no tax liability and no reporting requirement, but most US clients won't have much clue about this. Especially if they are looking for a permie (aside: methinks the OP is far too confident about their IR35 status, given the client wants a permie)

[WTFH]

Be careful you don't end up in the US tax system.
You'll know that it's happening if you have to fill out a W9.
The you'll be filling out a 1040 and 1099.
Oh, and a 401(k) if a pension is involved.

What I'm trying to say is: don't assume that a one man band based in the UK is going to be treated as a limited company, because that's not really how US contractors work. If you're working for a US company, they will probably want to treat you the same way their US contractors are treated.

[NotAllThere]

It doesn't exempt YourCo from IR35, YourCo is subject to ITEPA Pt. 2 Ch. 8, it merely exempts the foreign client from ITEPA Pt. 2. Ch 10.

Which means it's your company's responsibility to ensure compliance, not the foreign client.