Reply to: How Low Can You Go?

[courtg9000]

£1250 day rate for an ex-Big 4 Senior Partner seems terrible considering partners at such firms were making £750k - £1m in 2023/24.

I've done a couple of PE assignments for smaller clients. Enjoyed both gigs a lot but such opportunities have really dried up in the last year (for me at least!)

I know several recruiters who started their own firms in recent times and all of seem to focus heavily on winning PE clients but it is obviously tough going.

What you have to look at is the control the PE boys are exerting on their investments. It looks a little like this:

PE INVESTED Company: "We want £20 Million for this project".

PE HOUSE INVESTMENT DIRECTOR: "Ok, no problemo, but I will own and run the project".

PE Investment Director then goes off and recruits someone to run the delivery team (or gets his investment manager or investment analyst to ring round the favoured recruiters).

So PE has the power. They are deciding the rates for their projects and they do not want to pay huge amounts. They also do not want to hand projects over to consultancy firms if they can help it these days.
That £20 mil is most likely financed by additional debt that the PE house is responsible for so the thumb screws will be out on force.

[edison]

I had a rather pleasant roast lunch with all the trimmings and some very good booze today with a recruiter and old friend who places commercial side consultants with PE houses (sub contracted to work on projects for them at their clients in some cases) , Big 4 and lower consultancies. Some niche some not so niche.
The PE boys are going in hard and tough on rates.
£1250/day top whack for former Big 4 senior partner level bods. Very niche consultant level might get £800 if no one else has the skills within the availability window and they pitch very well. A lot less generally for consultant grade. They want analyst/junior level at sub £300 to the agency.
This stuff is more than likely to be more inside than an inside thing. The very tight D&C and micro management will kill off anything else that might help a status determination of outside, just trust me on this.
He told me perm salaries are going the same way. The days of an ex big 4 partner being able to make anywhere near their annual cut elsewhere are fading fast and the all the players in the market are cutting partner level roles heavily. Lots of meetings without coffee with HR!
He said he thinks that the rates have a bit further to fall. He wouldn't be drawn on a number.

£1250 day rate for an ex-Big 4 Senior Partner seems terrible considering partners at such firms were making £750k - £1m in 2023/24.

I've done a couple of PE assignments for smaller clients. Enjoyed both gigs a lot but such opportunities have really dried up in the last year (for me at least!)

I know several recruiters who started their own firms in recent times and all of seem to focus heavily on winning PE clients but it is obviously tough going.

[TheDude]

I have taken low rates a few times in my career. One time over 50% less. Never happy about it but it's kept me from losing my house so I don't regret it. In this day and age you have to do whatever it takes. Whether it's taking a low rate in the bad times or having a side hustle.

Nothing to regret. Anyone who thinks they have a 'usual rate' anymore is misguided.

Those who live through the good times were fortunate that decent rates were the norm. Those days aren't coming back no matter how skilled you think you are.

[SussexSeagull]

Indeed.

I have a friend and ex-colleague who has been an interim specialist in international Corporate Relations for the last few years. He was a big cheese as a permie and on a hefty package.

I'm guessing his day rate was c. £1500 upwards. He has a very impressive CV but cannot find any work whatsoever these days and has given up with a short term plan of doing some online tutoring for a bit of pocket money.

It's not just in IT that the market is tough.

Have heard it described as a White Collar Recession.

[SussexSeagull]

We all like posting jobs that pay risably tiny rates to make each other's flesh creep, but they barely dent the surface of my conciousness.
It's so unlikely any actual professional would consider these outrageous outliers, why even waste the mental space on them?

That's why the bush-league agents spend so much time pushing them. If they were possible to fill, they wouldn't have to put so much effort in to publicising them.

These adverts used to crop up in better times as well. I always assumed they were an attempt at a cunning ruse to later claim the job had been advertised externally before they went for an internal candidate they wanted all along or claim no one wanted the job before asking the Home Office to issue a Visa.

[courtg9000]

I had a rather pleasant roast lunch with all the trimmings and some very good booze today with a recruiter and old friend who places commercial side consultants with PE houses (sub contracted to work on projects for them at their clients in some cases) , Big 4 and lower consultancies. Some niche some not so niche.
The PE boys are going in hard and tough on rates.
£1250/day top whack for former Big 4 senior partner level bods. Very niche consultant level might get £800 if no one else has the skills within the availability window and they pitch very well. A lot less generally for consultant grade. They want analyst/junior level at sub £300 to the agency.
This stuff is more than likely to be more inside than an inside thing. The very tight D&C and micro management will kill off anything else that might help a status determination of outside, just trust me on this.
He told me perm salaries are going the same way. The days of an ex big 4 partner being able to make anywhere near their annual cut elsewhere are fading fast and the all the players in the market are cutting partner level roles heavily. Lots of meetings without coffee with HR!
He said he thinks that the rates have a bit further to fall. He wouldn't be drawn on a number.
He said he was considering taking payroll in house.
He also said I was best off in retirement!!!

[edison]

There is no usual day rate anymore.

Indeed.

I have a friend and ex-colleague who has been an interim specialist in international Corporate Relations for the last few years. He was a big cheese as a permie and on a hefty package.

I'm guessing his day rate was c. £1500 upwards. He has a very impressive CV but cannot find any work whatsoever these days and has given up with a short term plan of doing some online tutoring for a bit of pocket money.

It's not just in IT that the market is tough.

[TheDude]

Received an email from an agency about a contract Business Partner role at a council. I'd expect the day rate to be £400-550 in today's depressed market. My eyes watered when I saw the rate was £17ph.

Then I read the details more carefully and it was an 'Enterprise' Business Partner that was more focused on council business development. Phew!

Been on the bench since new year and not many opportunities have come up yet. My day rate is usually around 750-900 but now looking at roles c. £500-600 as much from getting bored as financial necessity.

There is no usual day rate anymore.

[Dorkeaux]

Also, good on you for not locking yourself into a specific rate because you've achieved it previously.
Any reasonable person would do the same, always keeping your eyes on the future.

Surf the market, baby!

[Dorkeaux]

Received an email from an agency about a contract Business Partner role at a council. I'd expect the day rate to be £400-550 in today's depressed market. My eyes watered when I saw the rate was £17ph.

Then I read the details more carefully and it was an 'Enterprise' Business Partner that was more focused on council business development. Phew!

Been on the bench since new year and not many opportunities have come up yet. My day rate is usually around 750-900 but now looking at roles c. £500-600 as much from getting bored as financial necessity.

We all like posting jobs that pay risably tiny rates to make each other's flesh creep, but they barely dent the surface of my conciousness.
It's so unlikely any actual professional would consider these outrageous outliers, why even waste the mental space on them?

That's why the bush-league agents spend so much time pushing them. If they were possible to fill, they wouldn't have to put so much effort in to publicising them.

[edison]

Received an email from an agency about a contract Business Partner role at a council. I'd expect the day rate to be £400-550 in today's depressed market. My eyes watered when I saw the rate was £17ph.

Then I read the details more carefully and it was an 'Enterprise' Business Partner that was more focused on council business development. Phew!

Been on the bench since new year and not many opportunities have come up yet. My day rate is usually around 750-900 but now looking at roles c. £500-600 as much from getting bored as financial necessity.

[eek]

Offshore rates onshore. What could go wrong?

The Agency was Hays - now granted its probably a recruiter who usually does something else but you would hope someone would say don't send things like that to IT consultants..

[northernladuk]

Don't worry I got one today for £160 inside IR35 with 3 days a week in Cardiff.

Granted it was NHS but agencies should be telling people that offers like that will just create bigger problems down the line because whatever is delivered won't be usable.

Offshore rates onshore. What could go wrong?

[eek]

Software Engineer

Duration: 6 months

Location: London, Greater London, United Kingdom

Salary: £330 per Day Inside IR35

Work Arrangement: Hybrid (1-2 days a week in the office)

Scala and AWS !!!!!


Jeez!!

Don't worry I got one today for £160 inside IR35 with 3 days a week in Cardiff.

Granted it was NHS but agencies should be telling people that offers like that will just create bigger problems down the line because whatever is delivered won't be usable.

[oliverson]

Software Engineer

Duration: 6 months

Location: London, Greater London, United Kingdom

Salary: £330 per Day Inside IR35

Work Arrangement: Hybrid (1-2 days a week in the office)

Scala and AWS !!!!!


Jeez!!