Reply to: Moving to the EU

[herman_g]

Greece (where I live, working for a NL bank) has a digital nomad visa that is easy to get and offers 50% reduced taxes. Not unique to Greece: https://nomadgirl.co/countries-with-...l-nomad-visas/ and even available in Portugal.

[hugebrain]

With things getting worse and worse here, has anyone looked into working abroad as a contractor? Curious.

Spain or Portugal would be ideal, but thanks to the Will of the People there's now all sorts of hassles involved getting visa, work etc etc as to be expected.

As a tourist you're only able to visit for 90 days out of a 180 day period.

So basically I presume you'd have to take the 'work visa' approach. Perhaps open a company in the host company and employ yourself though that. Taxes might be much higher making that approach prohibitive.

Obviously the assumption here is your end clients are still UK based and WFH etc unless I suppose you have some super in demand skill.

Any thoughts?

Portugal will sell you a visa for cheap. Just buy some property for 300,000 - to 500,000 depending on location gives you some sort of golden ticket to live and work there (maybe tax-free). If you like it they will sell you a passport after a few years.

[KentDogWalker]

With things getting worse and worse here, has anyone looked into working abroad as a contractor? Curious.

Spain or Portugal would be ideal, but thanks to the Will of the People there's now all sorts of hassles involved getting visa, work etc etc as to be expected.

As a tourist you're only able to visit for 90 days out of a 180 day period.

So basically I presume you'd have to take the 'work visa' approach. Perhaps open a company in the host company and employ yourself though that. Taxes might be much higher making that approach prohibitive.

Obviously the assumption here is your end clients are still UK based and WFH etc unless I suppose you have some super in demand skill.

Any thoughts?

lots of jobs at the UN if you are an ethnic minority

[clearedforlanding]

This residence permit means you will be unable to do any economic or professional activities in Spain.

Cycle over to Gibraltar to "work".

[lecyclist]

You can get a non-lucrative visa on the basis of cash savings then work your British contracts.

This residence permit means you will be unable to do any economic or professional activities in Spain.

[Bluenose]

It appears that the Spanish Digital Nomad Visa (15% flat rate income tax) goes live on (or, shortly after) 5th January 2023 and the Portugese Digital Nomad Visa has already gone live (1st November 2022), 20% flat rate income tax.

I have started a thread in the Umbrella section of the forum, if anyone has already applied for the new Portugese Nomad Visa please post about it here. Obviously, the Spanish one is not live yet but I would expect that people will start to apply for it in January.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

The autonomo route would imply working for contracts in Spain. The rates are pitiful (or were when I did this 12 years ago). Nothing like the contract market in the UK.

You can get a non-lucrative visa on the basis of cash savings then work your British contracts.

[Antman]

The autonomo route would imply working for contracts in Spain. The rates are pitiful (or were when I did this 12 years ago). Nothing like the contract market in the UK.

[lecyclist]

You forget the 90 days out of 180 days rule, if you overstay you are at risk to be deported. You may first get away with it and just use some kind of excuse, but your passport will now be stamped at entry and exit of the EU and they could refuse you entry when you try to get back in

Worth mentioning, that there is not even a workaround of crossing into another EU country without getting a stamp, departing from there, and when asked pretending you split the time between countries. It’s the total number of days spent within the Schengen area that is taken into account.

If you overstay, it is possible you will receive an overstay stamp in your passport, that will encourage increased scrutiny of your future travels at border controls, as well as potentially impacting your ability to gain permanent residency in future in that country (if that was your plan).

[Eirikur]

[*]Go as a tourist, they won't know you write C++ for a bank in London during work hours will they?....
.

You forget the 90 days out of 180 days rule, if you overstay you are at risk to be deported. You may first get away with it and just use some kind of excuse, but your passport will now be stamped at entry and exit of the EU and they could refuse you entry when you try to get back in

[BlasterBates]

In the context of the ops post I assume the following:

1. He in spain for less than 6 months
2. He works with non-spanish clients
3. He is a LTD company director in the UK
4. He's in Spain on a visa that does not allow work
5. He can prove he has funds to support himself for the duration of his stay in Spain without having to rely on income

In this instance, I would expect no tax to be paid in spain.

If he gets a self-employed visa in Spain but only has foreign clients, that's a different story and in this case, this applies:

a person may be resident for tax purposes in two different countries. This could be the case, for instance, of expatriates working in Spain who are resident in both Spain and their home country. A person who is resident in another country may qualify for a relief or exemption of Spanish tax under DTTs between the home country and Spain.

Otherwise, this applies

Individuals are resident in Spain for tax purposes if they meet at least one of the following criteria:

• Spend more than 183 days in Spain during a calendar year. In determining the period of stay, temporary absences are included in the count, except when the tax residence in another country can be proven.

He would still be a tax resident in the UK.

There are 10 different ways you can cut this and it all depends on exactly what you are doing. I could easily go to spain, work for 4 months and legally pay **** all tax.

My advice is to wait for the new digital nomad visa then talk to an accountant about keeping your tax residency in the
UK otherwise just go now as a tourist - the Spaniards aren't going to kick down the door of your AirBnB to catch you writing code for a client in London are they?

From the sources I've read the rules only apply if you are employed by a foreign employer. What the OP is suggesting is being self-employed. That is a different ball game.

If you live in a BnB or hotels for a few months working remotely obviously it is unlikely no-one will know and will not be beating your door down.

I'm just pointing out that it is probably not tax free, but sure you'll probably get away with it.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

You need to be careful of the definition of "foreign income". If you're self employed in Spain and you have a UK customer, that doesn't necessarily mean it's foreign income. If you commute to the UK then it is foreign income, if you work in Spain, self-employed and you're deemed to have a permanent establishment then it may well be deemed to be Spanish income.

In the context of the ops post I assume the following:

1. He in spain for less than 6 months
2. He works with non-spanish clients
3. He is a LTD company director in the UK
4. He's in Spain on a visa that does not allow work
5. He can prove he has funds to support himself for the duration of his stay in Spain without having to rely on income

In this instance, I would expect no tax to be paid in spain.

If he gets a self-employed visa in Spain but only has foreign clients, that's a different story and in this case, this applies:

a person may be resident for tax purposes in two different countries. This could be the case, for instance, of expatriates working in Spain who are resident in both Spain and their home country. A person who is resident in another country may qualify for a relief or exemption of Spanish tax under DTTs between the home country and Spain.

Otherwise, this applies

Individuals are resident in Spain for tax purposes if they meet at least one of the following criteria:

• Spend more than 183 days in Spain during a calendar year. In determining the period of stay, temporary absences are included in the count, except when the tax residence in another country can be proven.

He would still be a tax resident in the UK.

There are 10 different ways you can cut this and it all depends on exactly what you are doing. I could easily go to spain, work for 4 months and legally pay **** all tax.

My advice is to wait for the new digital nomad visa then talk to an accountant about keeping your tax residency in the
UK otherwise just go now as a tourist - the Spaniards aren't going to kick down the door of your AirBnB to catch you writing code for a client in London are they?

[BlasterBates]

You need to be careful of the definition of "foreign income". If you're self employed in Spain and you have a UK customer, that doesn't necessarily mean it's foreign income. If you commute to the UK then it is foreign income, if you work in Spain, self-employed and you're deemed to have a permanent establishment then it may well be deemed to be Spanish income.

[BlasterBates]

As I plan to move long term (in a few years), I will just take up domicile there and pay tax there unless my accountant suggests something else.

I haven't delved too deeply into the tax rules yet but what I do know is, you only become a 'resident for tax purposes' after spending more then 6 months in Spain unless you can prove you are still a tax resident in another country that has a bilateral agreement. This would suggest to me, you don't have to pay tax if you're there, and working remotely, for just a few months.

If you're going as a non-lucrative, or a tourist, and hiding the fact you're working, you don't need to think about this at all. As long as your income is from OUTSIDE of spain, this should be fine.

EDIT: Looking at the advice from my lawyer, she is saying that you have to reside in spain for more than 6 months before you pay tax. If you are there for less than 6 months you don't have to pay tax on any FOREIGN income. This implies that you would only pay tax on income from Spanish clients.

It can't be repeated enough: get a lawyer/accountant to advise on this.

If you're working in Spain remotely and you're a permanent employee then it does appear you don't pay tax, however if you're self-employed then I would not make that assumption:

https://www.europeantax.blog/post/10...ring-and-after

If you're in Spain the safe solution is to register there as self-employed and tax yourself in Spain. The British worker had to go through a rather painful court case to get it ruled in his favour. I would assume the tax authorities would go after you if you're living and registered in Spain and you pay little tax. It would be unnecessary stress.

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

ConsultingTechArchitect this is all very valuable info, but you haven't touched on the taxation of your company income. Does it mean you think this is ok to run a UK Ltd and pay its corp tax in the UK? No issues with the seat of control/permanent establishment of it being abroad? (I mean the residency of your company, not yours)

As I plan to move long term (in a few years), I will just take up domicile there and pay tax there unless my accountant suggests something else.

I haven't delved too deeply into the tax rules yet but what I do know is, you only become a 'resident for tax purposes' after spending more then 6 months in Spain unless you can prove you are still a tax resident in another country that has a bilateral agreement. This would suggest to me, you don't have to pay tax if you're there, and working remotely, for just a few months.

If you're going as a non-lucrative, or a tourist, and hiding the fact you're working, you don't need to think about this at all. As long as your income is from OUTSIDE of spain, this should be fine.

EDIT: Looking at the advice from my lawyer, she is saying that you have to reside in spain for more than 6 months before you pay tax. If you are there for less than 6 months you don't have to pay tax on any FOREIGN income. This implies that you would only pay tax on income from Spanish clients.

It can't be repeated enough: get a lawyer/accountant to advise on this.