Concurrent contracts

[BlasterBates]

My main one doesn't actually mention working hours, it just states that my weekly hours are 36.5 (yes, it's an unusual amount). The second one states "core hours" and the third, I haven't even seen any sort of contract as I just started. It's inside so I'm not particularly fussed about the T's&C's. Good name for the CV as far as I'm concerned and that's all it is to me.

I still think they wouldn't be thrilled knowing that I'm moonlighting my services, but ho hum.

If you have three contracts totalling 90 hours and you're working 90 hours no problem. It's up to you, that is perfectly legal and it doesn't matter if the clients found out. However there are some who work 40 hours and then charge two clients 80 hours. That is actually fraud so they could potentially face some unpleasant legal action from their clients. I get the impression though that mostly contractors get away with it and they probably would simply be sacked if the clients found out.

[northernladuk]

The problem we now see with IR35 is as a result of forcing independent contractors to sign contracts that tie down their working hours or time and avoid substitution.

Is it? I'm sure this has been true for the last 15 years IR35 has been around?

[BrandNewOne]

Do what you gotta do. .

These companies need to remember that we are contractors. Inside or outside is irrelevant. You are not giving me job security and I certainly don't need you to. That's the risk I am taking. I get no employee benefits or protections. I'm there to deliver on a task and move on. Period.

The problem we now see with IR35 is as a result of forcing independent contractors to sign contracts that tie down their working hours or time and avoid substitution.

If you can manage it then do it. Just don't get caught

[ensignia]

Depends on your contract. 90+ odd percent of people are contracted to log on 9-5 and probably will be unless there is a seismic shift to where we should be. I'm hoping as firms continue to get to grips with the new thinking post IR35 changes this will change more in our favour but time will tell.

My main one doesn't actually mention working hours, it just states that my weekly hours are 36.5 (yes, it's an unusual amount). The second one states "core hours" and the third, I haven't even seen any sort of contract as I just started. It's inside so I'm not particularly fussed about the T's&C's. Good name for the CV as far as I'm concerned and that's all it is to me.

I still think they wouldn't be thrilled knowing that I'm moonlighting my services, but ho hum.

[northernladuk]

Well Covid is driving some drastic changes in the market from what I can see. What were local opportunities are now becoming open to more people due to remote/hybrid. Not sure if this is a good thing (yet), but can see that for clients it drives more choice and for contractors, more competition. Will improve the overall market over time and hopefully rates as skills increase...

They aren't in the market, they are worldwide. Everyone is working from home, not just our market. More competition can also mean a saturated market which will not increase rates.

The heyday of massive contract rates has long gone and contracting is the standard way to resource in IT now. Perms are leaving in droves to go contracting so all that is happening is people move from one type of role to the other. No increase in demand really and more competition for the many roles out there. And in the background the offshore consultancy continues it's steady march. If rates just stay the same over the next 10 years I'll be over the moon. I can't see them increasing.

[IsayIsayIsay]

Well Covid is driving some drastic changes in the market from what I can see. What were local opportunities are now becoming open to more people due to remote/hybrid. Not sure if this is a good thing (yet), but can see that for clients it drives more choice and for contractors, more competition. Will improve the overall market over time and hopefully rates as skills increase...

[northernladuk]

Currently triple billing. Two Outside IR35 with SOW's and the third is Inside but on a very healthy rate.

Juggling can be tricky sometimes, but manageable. Often working into the evening and most of Sunday, but to be expected.

We are contractors working on delivering outcomes; we aren't paid to log in from 9-5. If there's a chance to increase your revenue by taking on additional work and you think you can cope, then do it.

Depends on your contract. 90+ odd percent of people are contracted to log on 9-5 and probably will be unless there is a seismic shift to where we should be. I'm hoping as firms continue to get to grips with the new thinking post IR35 changes this will change more in our favour but time will tell.

[ensignia]

Currently triple billing. Two Outside IR35 with SOW's and the third is Inside but on a very healthy rate.

Juggling can be tricky sometimes, but manageable. Often working into the evening and most of Sunday, but to be expected.

We are contractors working on delivering outcomes; we aren't paid to log in from 9-5. If there's a chance to increase your revenue by taking on additional work and you think you can cope, then do it.

[BlasterBates]

I would only point out not to double book. i.e. if your timesheets for both companies were to overlap, and both clients did find out you would be for the high jump. Other than that why not.

[IsayIsayIsay]

Thanks for the replies all. I'd be transparent with the client, so not trying to over manage 2 contracts. I take on board everything offered as advice here and I think my best option is to negotiate a sooner end time for the contract (from the original 6mths). The thought have juggling two clients on the same days fills be with dread and from a moral standpoint not something I could consider. I did wonder if part time contracts pay well, are this is where I was going... securing 2 days at a higher rate with a new client.

Cheers.

[northernladuk]

Here we go again...... Loads of threads on the recently. I'd bet nearly every contractor out there has pondered this since we locked down so try the google search method for all the previous threads.

The answer is - it depends on your situation. The bottom line is if you can't tell both your clients exactly what you are doing then you shouldn't be doing it.

Firstly you need to work out EXACTLY what your sitaution is. Are you contracted for 5 days and you are just coasting or are you deliving defined outcome to a SoW? You need to look at your contract and see what your obligations are. If, like 98% of us, you have a contract that states 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, 5 days a week, prof working week or anything like that then you are dead in the water. You will be in breach of contract working for another client on your current clients time. Even if it's not there but that is the clients expectation then you are on rocky ground.
The other option is if you are delivering a set outcome with no defined period. Just deliver X on Y and how much time and when you spend your time then yeah no probs. Fill your boots.
You have to be honest with yourself here, plus it's in black and white in the contract.

I read in to your post you are contracted 5 days, you only do 3 days work and you want to double bill for the 2 days you have spare but your client is paying for. Every single thread we've had on dual working has boiled down to this in the end hence my slightly negative view on it.

Having worked out your situation and there is a possibility you can pull it off properly and legally then you hit the second brick wall. Part time contracts are like hens teeth and are more often snapped up by experienced contracts with good relationships with existing clients. I haven't looked for a while now but in all the time I've been looking over the last 15 years I can count the number of part time contracts on one hand.
If you are thinking of securing another full time contract but only spending 2 days on it then that's a no go as well.

If have the proper contracts in place and ways of working with both clients it's possible. If you are just trying to pull the wool over both clients and double bill then no.

Don't over estimate your ability to manage two full time contracts either. You are going to have meeting clashes regularly and will have to blatently lie constantly to move them. You are also going to have busy periods at both clients where you simply don't have enough time in the day. Might only be 3 days on one client and 2 on the next but if they both drop you a deadline to finish something in 3 days you are gonna be screwed. Get found out and you'll be out the door in a flash.

So do you really want two clients alongside each other or are you trying to double bill on your clients time?

[cannon999]

I assume that you're currently working 5 days a week for the client? If they agree to reduce your working hours to 3 days a week, then you find another contract that allows you to do 2 days a week, how are you any better off? I.e. you're still being paid for 5 days a week, like you are now. I think it would be easier to reduce the duration of your current contract, e.g. get the project finished in 3 months rather than 5 months.

Alternately, you might be planning to keep the current contract as is, but squash your work into 3 days and then moonlight for another client (so that you're being paid twice for the same days). If that's your plan, don't do it. Aside from any legal/moral issues, the main practical drawback is that both clients will expect you to be available for meetings at the same time.

Expect you to be available? I tell my clients my availability - there are no expectations. If they don't like it - they can get another contractor.

As far as the original question goes - if you are willing to work hard - do it. There are no issues - you are a business. Take on as many clients as you think you can handle.

[hobnob]

I assume that you're currently working 5 days a week for the client? If they agree to reduce your working hours to 3 days a week, then you find another contract that allows you to do 2 days a week, how are you any better off? I.e. you're still being paid for 5 days a week, like you are now. I think it would be easier to reduce the duration of your current contract, e.g. get the project finished in 3 months rather than 5 months.

Alternately, you might be planning to keep the current contract as is, but squash your work into 3 days and then moonlight for another client (so that you're being paid twice for the same days). If that's your plan, don't do it. Aside from any legal/moral issues, the main practical drawback is that both clients will expect you to be available for meetings at the same time.

[IsayIsayIsay]

Hi All, new to this forum and stepped into contracting in November. Does anyone have experience of working concurrent part time contracts, any challenges/hints and tips and indeed positives from doing so.

My current contract could be managed 2-3 days a week and want to enter negotiation as well as look for another contract to run alongside.

Thanks,
Rich.