Reply to: How do you ask for a renewal raise, if working direct?

[northernladuk]

By over an hour!

Shurrup you

[ladymuck]

EDIT : Damn. LM beat me to it.

By over an hour!

[ladymuck]

I have never worked in public sector. Maybe that explains it

Most of those on the list were private sector... I don't think all banks are publicly owned, just a couple.

[cannon999]

Well here you go. In black and white. And these are the mass take it or leave it ones. Not the individuals of which there will be plenty. I've had to do it on a public sector contract when the consultancy I was with through had to deliver a cost saving. The list isn't complete either. Been plenty we've discussed on here that are not in that list.

http://www.egos.co.uk/contract-breakers.htm

Maybe it's not a common thing on day rate contracting but if you are trying to move more towards fixed cost or consultancy work it becomes more popular.

EDIT : Damn. LM beat me to it.

I have never worked in public sector. Maybe that explains it

[northernladuk]

I have never heard of anybody getting a reduced rate as the contract went on. Honestly people only ask for higher rates..

Well here you go. In black and white. And these are the mass take it or leave it ones. Not the individuals of which there will be plenty. I've had to do it on a public sector contract when the consultancy I was with through had to deliver a cost saving. The list isn't complete either. Been plenty we've discussed on here that are not in that list.

http://www.egos.co.uk/contract-breakers.htm

Maybe it's not a common thing on day rate contracting but if you are trying to move more towards fixed cost or consultancy work it becomes more popular.

EDIT : Damn. LM beat me to it.

[ladymuck]

I have never heard of anybody getting a reduced rate as the contract went on. Honestly people only ask for higher rates..

You've never worked for a retail bank!

I recall they would regularly have a spate of 10% rate cuts plus a nice furlough either at Easter or Christmas.

Egos used to maintain a list of companies who did that: http://www.egos.co.uk/contract-breakers.htm

[eek]

I have never heard of anybody getting a reduced rate as the contract went on. Honestly people only ask for higher rates..

Purchasing departments need to justify their existance.

I continually have to have conversations with them where they look at the advertised rates (say from Gcloud) and they assume that's the point I start negotiations at. They get upset when I say that those Gcloud terms are for blocks of time booked well in advance on 7 day no quibble payment terms and a right (on our side) to delay things if necessary.

And even if you match all those criteria the rate is likely to be higher - because we can..

[cannon999]

I don't disagree but the point is it is not uncommon for a reduction in next years costs to be included in supplier contracts. Prices going up because life costs more isn't a defacto standard.

I have never heard of anybody getting a reduced rate as the contract went on. Honestly people only ask for higher rates..

[jamesbrown]

I don't disagree but the point is it is not uncommon for a reduction in next years costs to be included in supplier contracts. Prices going up because life costs more isn't a defacto standard.

Prices going up because I am telling you the new price and you can take it or leave it (unless I have reason to compromise) is a de facto standard. Just as it's a de facto standard that PC is going to get whatever he's given.

[northernladuk]

There is a different way to look at this. They should be able to do MORE work in the SAME amount of time so the rate should be higher.

I don't disagree but the point is it is not uncommon for a reduction in next years costs to be included in supplier contracts. Prices going up because life costs more isn't a defacto standard.

[cannon999]

There is also the fact that many clients will push a future discount down to suppliers. They don't need to onboard, they are up to speed so they should be able to do the same amount of work in a less time so will push for a reduction in rates/fixed cost over future years. Public sector contracts have it mandated I believe.

There is a different way to look at this. They should be able to do MORE work in the SAME amount of time so the rate should be higher.

[jamesbrown]

There is also the fact that many clients will push a future discount down to suppliers. They don't need to onboard, they are up to speed so they should be able to do the same amount of work in a less time so will push for a reduction in rates/fixed cost over future years. Public sector contracts have it mandated I believe.

Sure, there are different pressures each way. If you're in demand and supply is short, you come out on top every time. It's as old as the hills. The point is that the OP should feel free to ask for what they want, they can do so in a simple/matter of fact way, and the client is free to refuse or counter-offer, but the idea that you cannot get a significant increase (not that the OP mentioned amount) because it's a renewal is silly, just as it is to imagine that massive companies and small companies and every company size in between do not increase their prices as the market changes.

[northernladuk]

It's very hard to know what you're talking about.

It's really quite simple. Each negotiation is distinct from the last, unburdened by the last, a free discussion about the nature of supply and demand at the time. You can demand what you want and the counterparty can refuse. The reality is that prices are going up quickly. Your argument appears to be "oh, no, the market rate doesn't matter because I just finished a contract doing the same thing at the market rate when I started, which was lower that the current market rate". This is palpable nonsense.

There is also the fact that many clients will push a future discount down to suppliers. They don't need to onboard, they are up to speed so they should be able to do the same amount of work in a less time so will push for a reduction in rates/fixed cost over future years. Public sector contracts have it mandated I believe.

[jamesbrown]

If I say for "Example SOW 1" I want £650 a day, I would struggle to ask for £700 a day before it's finished. Unless it was delayed through no fault of my own, and at that stage I would put the SOW through change control to get the rate increased.

If I was just a bum on a seat, doing renewal after renewal, without a SOW, then yes I would simply ask for more.
But I thought we were talking about business here, not a job...

It's very hard to know what you're talking about.

It's really quite simple. Each negotiation is distinct from the last, unburdened by the last, a free discussion about the nature of supply and demand at the time. You can demand what you want and the counterparty can refuse. The reality is that prices are going up quickly. Your argument appears to be "oh, no, the market rate doesn't matter because I just finished a contract doing the same thing at the market rate when I started, which was lower that the current market rate". This is palpable nonsense.

[Lance]

Of course it isn't, businesses do it all the time. You think businesses don't increase their prices when their costs increase or the dynamics of supply/demand change? Of course, they do, that is rudimentary. The reality is that demand is high at present, much higher than it was a year ago (an underlying reason for cost inflation too).

If you want a quote for some work, I will give you one. You can like it or lump it and the past or future is irrelevant - a contract negotiation is "right now".

If I say for "Example SOW 1" I want £650 a day, I would struggle to ask for £700 a day before it's finished. Unless it was delayed through no fault of my own, and at that stage I would put the SOW through change control to get the rate increased.

If I was just a bum on a seat, doing renewal after renewal, without a SOW, then yes I would simply ask for more.
But I thought we were talking about business here, not a job...