Reply to: NHS vs MOJ contract

[MonkeysUncle]

To echo what others have said here, it depends on what part of the NHS you go into.

I have worked at a couple of Acute hospitals and a couple of mental health hospitals, never any national programmes so I cant comment on those.

Acute- Have the money but it comes with mountains of red tape to cut through (example - I had to write a 3 separate business cases for my project. Each business case had to be approved by 4 boards before I could move onto the next, in total it would take 15months by which time the solution (Office 365) has changed so much that the original business case was barely valid!. Very much an Us (permies) and Them (contractors) mentality. As NLUK said, keep your head down, and focus on delivery.

Mental Health - No money, tech is always lagging behind but the staff were always good to work with. It was very much a "we are all in this tulip together" approach so everyone was always helpful but stretched to their limit.

As someone else said, contracts do always get extended, pay is always on time (in my experience) and once you have that NHS experience, agencies will always come back to you for other NHS based roles.

[northernladuk]

I must point out that on all my NHS contracts the permie staff were very stand off to the point some refused point blank to assist and made it clear they were not happy with contractors or the pay on offer, they did their upmost to make it difficult that did not phase me as I am sure most of you are the same and have a thick skin, I am not there to make new friends but provide a service , get paid and move on.

Correct. When I was with CSC working on the NPFiT programme there was a half day induction for anyone new to the programme to explain the culture of the NHS and how to work with them. We all thought it was a bit ridiculous at the time but once you got in to the project it made perfect sense.

It's not about having thick skin or making friends, it's about delivering to a difficult customer. We saw many desk bangers and self proclaimed doers come and go because it just got nothing done and added blockers. Accepting the frustrations and handling your customer was the only way to either not get yourself kicked off the project or to not get so hacked off with it you leave. Very strange project that was. Wouldn't do it again for all the tea in china.

[jayjay69]

To balance that out the work can be absolutely awful. I know what jay says can be true but on the flip side I know more people that have voluntarily left NHS gigs than all the other clients put together. It can be a nightmare place to work if you don't fit in to that style.

I must point out that on all my NHS contracts the permie staff were very stand off to the point some refused point blank to assist and made it clear they were not happy with contractors or the pay on offer, they did their upmost to make it difficult that did not phase me as I am sure most of you are the same and have a thick skin, I am not there to make new friends but provide a service , get paid and move on.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for all the tips ?

My plan is to finish the project next year.

May I ask what a good public sector day rate is. I'm more data automation

Can be absolutely anything from 240 quid inside to 600+ outside. Impossible to predict.

[BrandNewOne]

Thanks for all the tips ?

My plan is to finish the project next year.

May I ask what a good public sector day rate is. I'm more data automation

[malvolio]

NHS requires a hell of a lot of domain knowledge though

I agree. They use to describe the Shackleton aircraft as "10,000 rivets flying in close formation". The NHS is a bit like that, but rather than "close", try "passing acquaintance"...

[SimonMac]

NHS all the way! Had a number of NHS contracts in the past, guaranteed work, guaranteed pay , all have extended and the option to move on to other projects once the current contract has ended. Plus agencies tend to keep you on the books for future work so you get first dibs...

NHS requires a hell of a lot of domain knowledge though

[northernladuk]

NHS all the way! Had a number of NHS contracts in the past, guaranteed work, guaranteed pay , all have extended and the option to move on to other projects once the current contract has ended. Plus agencies tend to keep you on the books for future work so you get first dibs...

To balance that out the work can be absolutely awful. I know what jay says can be true but on the flip side I know more people that have voluntarily left NHS gigs than all the other clients put together. It can be a nightmare place to work if you don't fit in to that style.

[jayjay69]

NHS all the way! Had a number of NHS contracts in the past, guaranteed work, guaranteed pay , all have extended and the option to move on to other projects once the current contract has ended. Plus agencies tend to keep you on the books for future work so you get first dibs...

[PerfectStorm]

Most PS roles are now limited to 12 months max, very very rare local hiring managers are given permission to go longer

Ah yes - but once you've got the first one under your belt, the calls for further such jobs will hopefully keep coming.

And I'm 2 years into a public role :-)

[SimonMac]

I'd say either - as there'll be no shortage of work in the fields of fixing NHS IT or locking people up. So you'll probably find that those contracts run and run, which is nice.

Most PS roles are now limited to 12 months max, very very rare local hiring managers are given permission to go longer

[PerfectStorm]

I'd say either - as there'll be no shortage of work in the fields of fixing NHS IT or locking people up. So you'll probably find that those contracts run and run, which is nice.

[SimonMac]

Hello all,

Just to get some thoughts from more experienced public sector contractors.

If you could choose between two contracts would you work in NHS Digital or MOJ

It depends on the project, only thing that really matters to me these days when deciding to take a contract or not

[northernladuk]

Thanks
Im curious about extensions. Renegotiating the day rate if possible. Is it worth it.

This is an IT role.

Depends on how you've been engaged. If you are just bum on seat via an agent then very little chance of that. The rates are via the framework and the agents are most likely on fixed rate. If you are through a consultancy delivering a managed service you might have a chance but you'll be talking a few tens of pounds here and there.
You'll also need to be very well embedded or critical to the work as you would in an situation where you need more money. Just asking for it because you've come to extension isn't going to work. If you've not added any extra value above and beyond what you were brought on to do you won't get any more.

Also many public sector contracts look for year on year savings from their suppliers which makes it even harder to get rate rises.

You need to be aware how to negotiate rate rises in general as well, let alone it being Public sector. Just asking for some more money from someone elses pocket will get you no where.

[BrandNewOne]

Happy to provide some insight into the MOJ if there is a specific role/dept you are interested in going for.

Thanks
Im curious about extensions. Renegotiating the day rate if possible. Is it worth it.

This is an IT role.