Reply to: Going perm or waiting it out - numbers

[jayn200]

Job design is key to retaining good staff. Sadly, there are lots of permanent roles in software development that have little in the way of accountabilities or involvement with the business, just a technical resource picking up tickets from an agile board. I worked in HR systems for a large bank and the main reasons people gave in their exit questionnaires included low job satisfaction or a lack of career prospects; few left for more money. If managers want to retain IT staff, they need to offer exciting, varied roles with genuine prospects for career development.

I agree I started off as a software developer when i was perm and I moved into BI (now also doing some data migrations) for that very reason. Software development was too far away from the business and was a thankless job. In BI it's completely different. Very close relationship to the business and lots of exposure.

Obviously now as a contractor maybe it doesn't matter as much anymore.

[pictavia]

The reason you want to go perm is critical. If you can't convey it clearly and authentically in a single sentence, it is very difficult to convince a recruiter or hiring manager you are serious. I know of cases recently where a contractor has joined for a perm role and already resigned before they were due to start to take up another contract role.

Job design is key to retaining good staff. Sadly, there are lots of permanent roles in software development that have little in the way of accountabilities or involvement with the business, just a technical resource picking up tickets from an agile board. I worked in HR systems for a large bank and the main reasons people gave in their exit questionnaires included low job satisfaction or a lack of career prospects; few left for more money. If managers want to retain IT staff, they need to offer exciting, varied roles with genuine prospects for career development.

[TheDogsNads]

The reason you want to go perm is critical. If you can't convey it clearly and authentically in a single sentence, it is very difficult to convince a recruiter or hiring manager you are serious. I know of cases recently where a contractor has joined for a perm role and already resigned before they were due to start to take up another contract role.

There is a lot of bias against contractors going perm in many organisations but forward thinking ones are mopping up very good contractors at what may have been less competitive salary levels compared to the start of the year. My current client has recruited some top talent like this recently. Sure, some of them may leave in a year but overall it's a net gain.

Yes, totally agree. Those contractors who say they want a permanent role, secure it then piss off quickly for a contract role make it even harder for the next contractor to make the change. Agents and clients dont like being pissed around,more so clients, Id say.

[edison]

You can try and disguise gaps or minimise them. But, any agent or hiring manager worth their salt will spot them.

In better times, this (gaps) was a problem and you almost had to swear an oath that you had finished with contracting before you could get perm opportunities. Of course there were always people who'd point to this not being the case but that's irrelevant when it is you struggling to find income.

I never put a full from to date on my cv. Jobs are from month / year to month / year. It looks better if your job starts and ends in different years although you dont always have control of this!

You also have to make it clear in your profile \ background at the top of your cv that you are only accepting perm positions and why. Simply saying you are only looking for perm probably will not cut it in today's market. You need to develop something along the lines that you want ownership of a product, be part of and contribute to continual development over the full lifecycle, blah, blah, blah.

The reason you want to go perm is critical. If you can't convey it clearly and authentically in a single sentence, it is very difficult to convince a recruiter or hiring manager you are serious. I know of cases recently where a contractor has joined for a perm role and already resigned before they were due to start to take up another contract role.

There is a lot of bias against contractors going perm in many organisations but forward thinking ones are mopping up very good contractors at what may have been less competitive salary levels compared to the start of the year. My current client has recruited some top talent like this recently. Sure, some of them may leave in a year but overall it's a net gain.

[Mr.Whippy]

Curious that is all, how many already took the plunge and went perm and who's still waiting for that outside / reasonable rate contract?

For those who decided to go perm, is it definite with ltd closure or just to wait things out and you are keeping you ltd dormant?

I took a permanent role because after a long time contracting I decided I'd just had enough. Managed to get a great base salary and benefits package. It's worked out well for me.

I have accumulated a decent amount in the company, so I'm going down the MVL route as there are no plans to return to contracting for the forseeable. Hopefully perm works out.... if not, I'll just go contracting via an umbrella until I'm able to restart another ltd.

[dsc]

I personally can't see how going from month / year duration format to year only is going to somehow hide gaps or short gigs. Sooner or later you'll have a gig which started / ended in the same year and that alone will trigger a question from anyone who looks at your CV.

I'd say that the only scenario when gaps / old contracts don't matter is if they need some odd niche skill and your CV fits the description.

[TheDogsNads]

I've been on the bench nearly a year now. I've got a healthy warchest and could afford to keep waiting and seeing whether things improve, but I don't want to go down that path and see the warchest erode further. So I'm going to start applying for perm and FTC in jobs where I can upskill.

I'm a bit unsure how best to present dates on a CV (Note: I'm not worried about explaining the year or so gap at interview once I get that far - that's easy).

My last contract ended November 2019.
Strictly speaking, I see it as I have been working for XYZ Ltd from 2014 - Present.......and list contracts underneath, with the most recent contract ending in 2019.

But when companies see that, won't they think "Is he still contracting then? Why's he applying for a perm job?" and just bin it.

I could of course put an earlier date e.g. XYZ Ltd from 2014 - November 2019. But then it really does look like I have been putting no effort into a search / had no plan for the last 9 months.

So dates wise - what's the best way of showing that you've been seeking a contract all this time but are now looking to commit to perm?

You can try and disguise gaps or minimise them. But, any agent or hiring manager worth their salt will spot them.

In better times, this (gaps) was a problem and you almost had to swear an oath that you had finished with contracting before you could get perm opportunities. Of course there were always people who'd point to this not being the case but that's irrelevant when it is you struggling to find income.

I never put a full from to date on my cv. Jobs are from month / year to month / year. It looks better if your job starts and ends in different years although you dont always have control of this!

You also have to make it clear in your profile \ background at the top of your cv that you are only accepting perm positions and why. Simply saying you are only looking for perm probably will not cut it in today's market. You need to develop something along the lines that you want ownership of a product, be part of and contribute to continual development over the full lifecycle, blah, blah, blah.

[Paralytic]

Also, pimps are so desperate now that they reach out to anyone with the right skill set be it contractor / perm, so I would necessarily say the switch is easy.

I see it the other way about - there are so many people available for each role now, pimps will chose the one(s) most likely to earn them their commissions, and a 12 month gap in experience may mean they'd go with other candidates.

[dsc]

I've been on the bench nearly a year now. I've got a healthy warchest and could afford to keep waiting and seeing whether things improve, but I don't want to go down that path and see the warchest erode further. So I'm going to start applying for perm and FTC in jobs where I can upskill.

I'm a bit unsure how best to present dates on a CV (Note: I'm not worried about explaining the year or so gap at interview once I get that far - that's easy).

My last contract ended November 2019.
Strictly speaking, I see it as I have been working for XYZ Ltd from 2014 - Present.......and list contracts underneath, with the most recent contract ending in 2019.

But when companies see that, won't they think "Is he still contracting then? Why's he applying for a perm job?" and just bin it.

I could of course put an earlier date e.g. XYZ Ltd from 2014 - November 2019. But then it really does look like I have been putting no effort into a search / had no plan for the last 9 months.

So dates wise - what's the best way of showing that you've been seeking a contract all this time but are now looking to commit to perm?

No way to do it on a CV imho, unless your gigs were all fairly long, then just list them as recent experience. Still anything shorter then 12 months will probably trigger a question why so short, to which all you can really say "contract". When talking to a pimp you can probably explain how you are fed up with travelling etc. and want more stability, but it's still up to the end client to take the risk and if they are 100% against taking on ex-contractors for perm roles then there's bugger all you can do to convince them otherwise.

Also, pimps are so desperate now that they reach out to anyone with the right skill set be it contractor / perm, so I would necessarily say the switch is easy.

[jayn200]

I've been on the bench nearly a year now. I've got a healthy warchest and could afford to keep waiting and seeing whether things improve, but I don't want to go down that path and see the warchest erode further. So I'm going to start applying for perm and FTC in jobs where I can upskill.

I'm a bit unsure how best to present dates on a CV (Note: I'm not worried about explaining the year or so gap at interview once I get that far - that's easy).

My last contract ended November 2019.
Strictly speaking, I see it as I have been working for XYZ Ltd from 2014 - Present.......and list contracts underneath, with the most recent contract ending in 2019.

But when companies see that, won't they think "Is he still contracting then? Why's he applying for a perm job?" and just bin it.

I could of course put an earlier date e.g. XYZ Ltd from 2014 - November 2019. But then it really does look like I have been putting no effort into a search / had no plan for the last 9 months.

So dates wise - what's the best way of showing that you've been seeking a contract all this time but are now looking to commit to perm?

Yeah I don't have a universal answer. I'm not a CV expert. I would just try one and see the responses you get. You can always put xyz Ltd from 2014 - 2020, leave off the month it gives enough ambiguity they will call and ask and then you have opportunity to sell yourself how you see fit.

[CheeseSlice]

What permie jobs ?? That ship has sailed

Most will just bin yourself cv as they will think you are trying to reskill

Not true.. I've been approached by a number of direct recruiters and agents for perm roles in the last month.
My CV and Linkedin profile make it quite clear that I'm a contractor, but that still doesn't put them off.

[GhostofTarbera]

I've been on the bench nearly a year now. I've got a healthy warchest and could afford to keep waiting and seeing whether things improve, but I don't want to go down that path and see the warchest erode further. So I'm going to start applying for perm and FTC in jobs where I can upskill.

I'm a bit unsure how best to present dates on a CV (Note: I'm not worried about explaining the year or so gap at interview once I get that far - that's easy).

My last contract ended November 2019.
Strictly speaking, I see it as I have been working for XYZ Ltd from 2014 - Present.......and list contracts underneath, with the most recent contract ending in 2019.

But when companies see that, won't they think "Is he still contracting then? Why's he applying for a perm job?" and just bin it.

I could of course put an earlier date e.g. XYZ Ltd from 2014 - November 2019. But then it really does look like I have been putting no effort into a search / had no plan for the last 9 months.

So dates wise - what's the best way of showing that you've been seeking a contract all this time but are now looking to commit to perm?

Most clients permie or contract will double check your dates anyhoo with past clients

What permie jobs ?? That ship has sailed

Most will just bin yourself cv as they will think you are trying to reskill


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[PTP]

Its up to you how you present yourself and how you write your CV. It's not a legal document.

There are ways of making the gaps less apparent without lying. For example by just using year instead of month or exact date. You can also put the date range you've been contracting and then put the contracts as subheadings, again you can use years here or even just contract length and leave start and end dates off completely. I am sure there are other strategies.

I've been on the bench nearly a year now. I've got a healthy warchest and could afford to keep waiting and seeing whether things improve, but I don't want to go down that path and see the warchest erode further. So I'm going to start applying for perm and FTC in jobs where I can upskill.

I'm a bit unsure how best to present dates on a CV (Note: I'm not worried about explaining the year or so gap at interview once I get that far - that's easy).

My last contract ended November 2019.
Strictly speaking, I see it as I have been working for XYZ Ltd from 2014 - Present.......and list contracts underneath, with the most recent contract ending in 2019.

But when companies see that, won't they think "Is he still contracting then? Why's he applying for a perm job?" and just bin it.

I could of course put an earlier date e.g. XYZ Ltd from 2014 - November 2019. But then it really does look like I have been putting no effort into a search / had no plan for the last 9 months.

So dates wise - what's the best way of showing that you've been seeking a contract all this time but are now looking to commit to perm?

[edison]

Had a gig with a "boutique consultancy" last year, didn't last long - two weeks in, demanded I perform out of hours support work on a rota - apparently that was always part of the deal just that they conveniently forgot to tell agent, forgot to raise at any stage of the process and indeed forgot to include in contract, statement of work. Told to accept by 5pm via email or be terminated. Couldn't accept anyway as had no access to email on site. Did the responsible thing considering IR35 and replied that I'd consider it with a separate contract / amended contract, had a number of questions around the support needed - ie predicted levels, access to production if required, SLAs for the support, consequences if unavailable etc.

Got terminated.

Still, it's nice to know they big themselves up but in reality most UK boutique consultancies are no better than the offshore Infosys types. Just slightly higher standard of quality. Bring in contractors to do the work, bring in loads of cheap grads they then shift around the country lacking the skills to do the work, pay them a pittance and charge highly for them...

Most of the boutique consultancies I know have lots of associates who have been senior consultants and/or had senior permie/interim roles. We're talking day rates of £800 up. Anything approaching offshore Infosys type roles can't be classed in the same bracket as boutique consulting.

[vwdan]

It’s the same for me, although, I’ve not had to travel away that much since contracting apart from the client paying for me to work a few days in London every week for a couple of years.

At a consultancy, I went all over the world and had a number of long stints in this country renting out flats near the offices.

My take home is double my consultancy pay where they used to bill me out at between £900-£1500 a day.

Yep, literally left the consultancy on a Friday, started a contract role on the Monday and doubled my take home!