Renegotiate new contract

[northernladuk]

What if a client issued an inside SDS and now agrees to allow a contractor to continue with their PSC on the basis of an outside assessed contract. I am sure most won't do this, but say they did?

I don't want to be rude but can you think about it? We were 3 weeks off it happening. People should really have gotten enough of a grasp to understand some scenarios. This one isn't really hard but part of basic IR35 decision making.

It's obviously me looking at the Flack I'm getting this morning but it's very frustrating.

How about you give us what you think and let us comment?

[Jolie]

What if a client issued an inside SDS and now agrees to allow a contractor to continue with their PSC on the basis of an outside assessed contract. I am sure most won't do this, but say they did?

[northernladuk]

Clients admits it's an inside ir35 gig? What does that even mean?

It's not hard. They've stated the terms of the engagement and it falls inside IR35.

There could be quite a few scenarios.

Is the client just doing blanket inside assessments?

Did they run it through CEST? did it come back indetermined or did it come back inside?

As a psc if you run it through CEST and it comes back indetermined you operate outside, take the risk, get some insurance if you can, and just fight it when the time comes.

Majority of clients will just take low risk approach and rather put everyone inside if they show up as indetermined on CEST.

Quite possibly but all that increases the risk on the contractor now. If the client does all those things but somewhere down the line indicated no substitution (for example) then the situation is going to get complicated for the contractor.

Yes, there will obviously be situations where this can turn around... but I am absolutely certain it's not in every contractors case and every contractor will probably be thinking they've got away with it right now.

Remember it's likely this will hit again in a years time as well.

I don't understand what it is difficult to understand about that. I think you actually understand that and are just being difficult on purpose.

Not at all. We've spent 4 months explaining this to people the situation to people that don't really understand what they do. The same people are going to jump to completely the wrong conclusions so we need to be very clear of the situation. We've already had 2 or 3 inside people with SDS's saying what do I do. Nothing has changed. These guys knee jerking the situation is actually going to make it works. Being tempted to declare outside and carry on when the client has said no substitution for example then you've also invalidated all your insurances. There is a potential for people to get in to worse trouble.

Nothing to do with being difficult.

[jayn200]

So the client admits it's an inside IR35 gig.


No it's not. It's inside. You've just said, the client said... Nothing has changed.

Clients admits it's an inside ir35 gig? What does that even mean?

There could be quite a few scenarios.

Is the client just doing blanket inside assessments?

Did they run it through CEST? did it come back indetermined or did it come back inside?

As a psc if you run it through CEST and it comes back indetermined you operate outside, take the risk, get some insurance if you can, and just fight it when the time comes.

Majority of clients will just take low risk approach and rather put everyone inside if they show up as indetermined on CEST.

I don't understand what it is difficult to understand about that. I think you actually understand that and are just being difficult on purpose.

[northernladuk]

My role was initially said to be interviewed for contracting outside IR35 but then due to the IR35 laws the agency came back saying client will have you placed inside IR 35
through an umbrella company of choice with no change in the day rate and provided with few umbrella company details.

So the client admits it's an inside IR35 gig.

My joining date is 30th March but the agency, umbrella and unwishfuly client (company) pushed through agreement letters thats now signed. The Job is outside IR35 but they are making me work inside IR35. It's development of new system that no one in the team has knowledge about.l

No it's not. It's inside. You've just said, the client said... Nothing has changed.

[cojak]

Any job is a good one at the moment.

Take the hit and work the contract as it is, anything else and you will probably lose it.

[Cirrus]

You could speak to them and point out IR35 has been delayed by a year. They might agree to changing your contract to a PSC arrangement.

[cyberstud23]

My role was initially said to be interviewed for contracting outside IR35 but then due to the IR35 laws the agency came back saying client will have you placed inside IR 35
through an umbrella company of choice with no change in the day rate and provided with few umbrella company details.
My joining date is 30th March but the agency, umbrella and unwishfuly client (company) pushed through agreement letters thats now signed. The Job is outside IR35 but they are making me work inside IR35. It's development of new system that no one in the team has knowledge about.

Can I renegotiate the offer and cancel umbrella company as I still have weeks to join the client.
I have not worked with this company or agent before. Should I first negotiate with the agent or the company.
Please reply my options... Urgent...

Can I use my Ltd company instead of signed contract with ContractorUmbrella. I have just joined ContractorUmbrella and not started working. The agent, client, umbrella agreement got signed few days back.
I have agreed joining date 1 April 2020.

Renegotiate with AGENCY OR CLIENT as they moved outside to Inside IR35 for new role and never worked here before.

Umbrella company
TERMINATION
13.1. There is no probationary period associated with your employment. Your employment is not for a fixed
term and is not of a temporary nature. It may be terminated by notice, as set out in this clause (or,
where we are justified in so doing, for example as a result of gross misconduct, without notice and without
making payment in lieu of notice).
13.2. Termination of a Client Assignment does not terminate your contract of employment.
13.3. You may not terminate your employment until any current Client Assignment can also be lawfully terminated
by us. You may not terminate a Client Assignment without also terminating your contract of employment,
without our written agreement. Subject thereto, this employment may be terminated by written notice as
follows:
13.3.1. During the first month, either by you or by us with immediate effect
13.3.2. Until you have achieved two years continuous employment, either by you or by us by giving one
weeks’ notice
13.3.3. Thereafter, either (a) by you giving us one week’s notice, or (b) by us giving you notice of two
weeks, plus one additional week for each year of continuous employment, up to a maximum of
twelve (maximum notice fourteen weeks);
13.4. Your employment will automatically terminate, without any requirement for notice, if continuation of your
employment would become unlawful, whether by reason of the expiry of any required work permit, or
otherwise.
13.5. If on termination you have taken more or less than the amount of paid leave to which you are entitled
(calculated to the date of termination), an adjustment calculated in accordance with the Working Time
Regulations 1998 (as amended) will be made to your final pay.
13.6. On termination of your employment for whatever reason, you will forthwith return all property belonging to
us or to any Client which is in your possession or under your control. You will if so required by us, confirm
in writing that you have complied with your obligation under this terml