Substitution -- practical concerns

[zerosum]

Why not just get the conversation with the client up to the point you actually get the sub in. As good as it gets when it comes to proving you can sub without the hassle.

Agree, this may be the best solution. The possibility of being permanently substituted would be a bummer...

[zerosum]

100% it is worth it! Even if you sub someone in for a day, it proves that you CAN do it under this contract. This is as close to a silver bullet for IR35 as you're going to get.

BUT it has to be done properly.

1. You're not doing it because you can't be available for the client. You're choosing to do it. There is actually case law on this.

Well, I can't be available because of travel and other things. But unlike last time, when a couple of days went unpaid/the client's systems were left somewhat unattended, I'm choosing to throw a sub in there instead.

[northernladuk]

Why not just get the conversation with the client up to the point you actually get the sub in. As good as it gets when it comes to proving you can sub without the hassle.

[ChimpMaster]

Is it really worth it?


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100% it is worth it! Even if you sub someone in for a day, it proves that you CAN do it under this contract. This is as close to a silver bullet for IR35 as you're going to get.

BUT it has to be done properly.

1. You're not doing it because you can't be available for the client. You're choosing to do it. There is actually case law on this.
2. You interview/hire the sub. The client doesn't.
3. You train/handover to sub in your own time.
4. You pay the sub from your Ltd.
5. You charge the client as normal.
6. The sub carries out all tasks that you normally do under the contract.


If you choose not to bring in the sub, try to at least get written confirmation from the client that they would have been willing to accept the sub from your company. That is the next best thing to actually getting the sub in.

[Lance]

Is it really worth it?


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it might well be worth it if the client uses the fact that a substitute was used to make an outside determination come next April.

[northernladuk]

Is it really worth it?


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This.

I wouldn't be trying to shovel a sub in for 2 to 3 days just for an IR35 tick. Really you should be getting him up to speed in your time. Isn't it going to take more time to do that than they actually save?

Even proper companies that do substitute don't do it for that length of time.

If it is financially worth it for you though QDOS have contract templates on their site, as does Ipse I believe.

[GhostofTarbera]

Is it really worth it?


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[zerosum]

Won’t be available for my current gig for a short period. In a similar situation a while back, end-client asked if there was anyone else I could put forward while I was away, but there wasn’t time to organise – now it is possible, however.

Tasks for the substitute might include building some unit tests for a particular isolated section of the system; I think development of new features is unrealistic given the timeframe. I'll also ask them to monitor the services that I've provisioned and take remedial action like restarting them/probing logs in case fires start (very possible). It’s entirely remote, for what that’s worth.

Some questions.

Originally I’d been thinking about fielding any emails/communications from the PM and forwarding them on, but (duh) that’s subcontracting rather than substitution. For full substitution, is there any kind of template contract that can be used? And short of a handcuff clause which I would hardly have the leverage to enforce, is there any way to prevent the gig being poached?

There is one cloud services account. I will relay the credentials and have the password changed afterwards. End-client always communicates with my company email, so I'll create another user for the sub in o365 and deactivate it afterwards.

Quantity of time is flexible. I had been thinking 2-3 days, which will cover the period I’ll be unavailable. But that can be increased if it’s a more robust demonstration of the right to substitute. Any thoughts on this?