Reply to: UK Ltd - UK Client - work from abroad

[Guesstimator]

If you are working cross border then you may need to set yourself up in your home country and bill your UK Ltd. In your case that is probably the most convenient approach. Only the profit left after billing to your home country company will be taxed in the UK.

The alternative is to have two contracts with the agency.

Thanks very much....I thought that but I have a feeling I'm gonna have a hell of a hard time convincing the agency of that.
They're just going to say 'client says inside and no ltd co's on the books any more' a la HSBC etc.
I really think they're not going to grasp that IR35 is NOT applicable to the days worked outside UK

This entire thing is such a collossal **** up. Though it pales by comparison with Brexit.

[BlasterBates]

Thanks BB.

To further muddy the water, and having read the contracting in the Hague thread, at what point would the need for dual contracts exist if I were to attend client in the UK?
Once a week for one day?
Every other week for two days?

To me, they'd simply be billable days and I'd still be carrying out the bulk of the work in the country my new business would be set up in but I fear I've misunderstood the complexity here...

Or is that situation only applicable to payroll solutions?

Additional bonus question... If end client says inside ir35 that is straight up not applicable?

If you are working cross border then you may need to set yourself up in your home country and bill your UK Ltd. In your case that is probably the most convenient approach. Only the profit left after billing to your home country company will be taxed in the UK.

The alternative is to have two contracts with the agency.

[Guesstimator]

Hello again.
Sue, if read this then apologies I'll try to give you a ring on Monday.

I've now changed tack and am thinking ahead of worst case scenarios and the increasingly likely event that clients take an ultra conservative view on IR35.

Currently I'm non-UK tax resident and this should continue (I've 120 day limit due to 2 ties).

Any days I work in the UK I anticipate will be inside IR35 and I'll likely end up in fee payers umbrella (from reading around, I get the impression there aren't many options around this, it's what end clients want and fee payer alike)
I'm OK with this it keeps things black and white....and I'll entirely probably have no other choice if I want the work.

What I'm struggling with is the days worked from home (ie outside the UK).
a) Days worked outside the UK are classed as foreign income and as long as I remain non-UK tax payer then I should not be taxed in the UK on those days...but I suspect the fee payer won't understand this and will try to apply UK PAYE to everything...can I stop them or will I have to somehow reclaim the tax? And also...I would be paying tax in my home location as a double whammy.
b) Does IR35 even apply to those days worked outside the UK? It's UK legislation but this work will not be performed in the UK.
c) if not...how do I get paid for those days? Ideally I'd thought to keep MyCo Ltd UK and bill them from that so there is a UK company at the end of the chain (to alleviate any tax liability concerns the fee payer might have) and then bill MyCo UK from MyCo Abroad but I'm not sure how well this will go across with the fee payer or how I can convince them. Assuming IR35 doens't apply to those days then it makes sense to be as a transaction trail...I'm not wedded to the idea and would consider a home location umbrella I guess...though obviously the MyCo Abroad makes more financial sense.

I realise these are pretty edge case questions but I'm trying to find a way that doesn't, frankly, piss off the fee payer so much that they convince the end client to bin me if it all gets too much of a headache.
Sue this might help our conversation having documented it. PS...I can't see my intended home country on your list of locations at the moment...

[Guesstimator]

Yes Please feel free to get in touch.

Thanks ever so much, I'll be in a position to fill in some blanks tomorrow so I'll drop you a line.

And thanks again to NAT & BB. Just them.

[Sue B]

Howdy


2. Any recommendations on who to chat to? Sue@iPaye?

Yes Please feel free to get in touch.

[northernladuk]

Good luck with that model when the shutters come down, walls go up, internet connection is cut off and all communications beyond this fair land becomes impossible. Try getting your money out of the UK then buster.
Bring on Brexit.

[NotAllThere]

The more days you work in the UK, the more likely you'll be tax resident there (as well as where you live). Regularly going to the UK also increase the likelihood and there are other factors that will be considered. Even if you're not, any work you do for the client in the UK (outside of business meetings, or some other tasks once in a while), you'll be due to pay tax to the UK authorities for those days worked, so you'll need to request and fill in a UK tax return.

When I did it, I went to the UK offices maybe 3 times a year for a few days each time.

[Guesstimator]

Thanks BB.

To further muddy the water, and having read the contracting in the Hague thread, at what point would the need for dual contracts exist if I were to attend client in the UK?
Once a week for one day?
Every other week for two days?

To me, they'd simply be billable days and I'd still be carrying out the bulk of the work in the country my new business would be set up in but I fear I've misunderstood the complexity here...

Or is that situation only applicable to payroll solutions?

Additional bonus question... If end client says inside ir35 that is straight up not applicable?

[BlasterBates]

Thanks dude.
That's a conclusion I was vaguely reaching, albeit very slowly.

Exactly, if you work remotely it means you need to register a company where you're working. That means you pay tax in the country.

[northernladuk]

Thanks dude.
That's a conclusion I was vaguely reaching, albeit very slowly.

You know what would make it go faster?

[Guesstimator]

I worked remotely through my Swiss GmbH via a UK agency for a UK client. All tax paid in CH. No VAT charged to UK agency. You'll probably be better off doing similar - i.e. set up a local company.

Thanks dude.
That's a conclusion I was vaguely reaching, albeit very slowly.

[NotAllThere]

I worked remotely through my Swiss GmbH via a UK agency for a UK client. All tax paid in CH. No VAT charged to UK agency. You'll probably be better off doing similar - i.e. set up a local company.

[Guesstimator]

No, leave them it's cool with me...it'll flummox others though!

[northernladuk]

This is a double bluff right?
In the name of all holy bejeebus, tell me you're doubling down on this joke?

I know people that believe this kinda thing..

Edit: having said that, I'm not much better. I routinely forgot a car I owned had a different diff, different gearbox and different wheels to the standard car which meant the speed on clock only bore passing resemblance to the speed I was going.

Lol.. Couldn't resist. I'll delete all my posts to get you back on topic.
Context...
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...st2657588.html

[Guesstimator]

Ergo bigger tyres will means you'll actually go further.

This is a double bluff right?
In the name of all holy bejeebus, tell me you're doubling down on this joke?

I know people that believe this kinda thing..

Edit: having said that, I'm not much better. I routinely forgot a car I owned had a different diff, different gearbox and different wheels to the standard car which meant the speed on clock only bore passing resemblance to the speed I was going.