Reply to: Agencies asking for previous contracting rates. What is your view?

[Stevie Wonder Boy]

But then you may have coughed up a perfectly good gig just because of 5 minutes of poor agent behaviour. To expect good, honest behaviour from ALL agent throughout the process is like expecting my cat to drive me home from the pub in my car.

I guess my cat does drive me home. To me it centres around how many of these calls are actually going to produce an interview? or are even against a genuine requirement.

For me, I very rarely get these types of calls. Do I feel that I'm missing anything, not really. -- They can only farm you if you let them.

[BHicks]

I've taken to using the NDA approach which for at least a couple of my clients has been the case, there's a clause in there that stipulates I may not discuss any aspect of the contract with an unrelated 3rd party and that includes the rate.

I then lighten the mood by telling the agent that I could tell them but the second I do, black helicopters would probably descend from on high and whisk them away...

[hungry_hog]

Take your existing rate and add on 10%

So if you are on 500, quote 550 and hope to get 600. If they only match your "existing" rate you are still quids in.

They have no way to verify your existing rate but they can "compare" it if they know other contractors at your clients.

Don't give a crazy high figure as it will put them off / look suspicious

[simes]

Yes, I thought a little excessive too.

If one understands an agent has a job and a motivation behind all of his actions (inherently profit and bonus related), including those that may to us seem silly, then just play the game and keep everyone interested and happy.

Blocking an agent seems mightily Holier than thou, and a case of shooting yourself in the foot.

[psychocandy]

I just say - I'm not prepared to discuss this. If they persist or claim they can't move forward. I just hang up and block them on the phone. Life is too short for this sort of nonsense. Believe me if they had a real contract they will drop it pronto.

You have to move on from being a supplicant with these people. Be reasonable of course, but the minute the details are vague, like client, location and rate, or as is often the case an unnatural interest in your present or recent roles. Then its time to just say I'm not going to share that. Any derision or little chuckles or outright intimidation, just put the phone down. They are just a

But then you may have coughed up a perfectly good gig just because of 5 minutes of poor agent behaviour. To expect good, honest behaviour from ALL agent throughout the process is like expecting my cat to drive me home from the pub in my car.

[pauldee]

You can tell then the previous rate, but when it comes to discuss the new rate, just the rate of the other roles you are being considered for. Market forces. Each time I look for a new role I increase my rate and I haven't lied about it at all.

[Stevie Wonder Boy]

And so the race to the bottom continues. I know lying has the potential to make dealing with agents easier but is it really not possible to find a way to act ethically and honestly in these situations? (without rolling over)

I just say - I'm not prepared to discuss this. If they persist or claim they can't move forward. I just hang up and block them on the phone. Life is too short for this sort of nonsense. Believe me if they had a real contract they will drop it pronto.

You have to move on from being a supplicant with these people. Be reasonable of course, but the minute the details are vague, like client, location and rate, or as is often the case an unnatural interest in your present or recent roles. Then its time to just say I'm not going to share that. Any derision or little chuckles or outright intimidation, just put the phone down. They are just a

[NotAllThere]

I'm kind of inclined to the lie, in my worst moments. But I tell them what my rate is. Not the rate I negotiated in the end,

I like the NDA approach though.

[SueEllen]

Had this conversation recently:

Them: what rate on you on at the minute.
Me: I'm looking for £xxx.
Them: so you're on £xxx now?
Me: as I said, I'm looking for £xxx.

Think he was just fishing anyway.

They can't check so say "Yes".

[man]

man/nluk - dont talk bollacks....

We all know that being honest and truthful to "some" agents is just going to mean they take the piss. Not all - some agents I know and trust.

If you want that warm fuzzy feeling that you've told nothing but the truth to the agent, then fair enough but hes laughing his nuts off drinking his pint in the pub with the £50 a day hes shafted you for.

You're quite right, but honest and truthful doesn't mean rolling or bending over. It's very rare (almost never) that I provide the actual numbers for a specific previous contract - I tend to provide nothing (a la "I'm looking for...") or the range of rates that I've previously taken work for, with a caveat that it's more about the appropriate rate for the work than a specific number, which depends on the details of the work. I certainly don't let them browbeat me into telling all and at no point do I allow them to even consider that I'm willing to take work on at the low end of my previous range for senior level work (and in my experience, almost all of them understand once I've said my piece). It helps that I know what market rates are because I speak to as many agents as possible and so I know when someone's taking the piss.

I'm not going to pretend that my way of dealing with this works for everyone - in fact I don't doubt that I've lost out to other contractors a number of occasions because I chose honesty and ethics in my trading but I would rather shut up shop and go permie, or run my own 'proper' B2B consultancy (with the many difficult and varied challenges that getting going will involve) than trade in a way I see as unethically, as a fast buck contractor (and I do include lies told to get a contract in that). If others want to do it differently, fine, but it's sad to see and in the long run I think my approach will work better for me and I won't have been a part of making the market even more cut-throat than it already is - there's too many bulltulipters (at all levels of the chain) in IT already.

[l35kee]

Had this conversation recently:

Them: what rate on you on at the minute.
Me: I'm looking for £xxx.
Them: so you're on £xxx now?
Me: as I said, I'm looking for £xxx.

Think he was just fishing anyway.

[Old Greg]

man/nluk - dont talk bollacks....

We all know that being honest and truthful to "some" agents is just going to mean they take the piss. Not all - some agents I know and trust.

If you want that warm fuzzy feeling that you've told nothing but the truth to the agent, then fair enough but hes laughing his nuts off drinking his pint in the pub with the £50 a day hes shafted you for.

50% margin? No wonder you are cross.

[psychocandy]

man/nluk - dont talk bollacks....

We all know that being honest and truthful to "some" agents is just going to mean they take the piss. Not all - some agents I know and trust.

If you want that warm fuzzy feeling that you've told nothing but the truth to the agent, then fair enough but hes laughing his nuts off drinking his pint in the pub with the £50 a day hes shafted you for.

[northernladuk]

And so the race to the bottom continues. I know lying has the potential to make dealing with agents easier but is it really not possible to find a way to act ethically and honestly in these situations? (without rolling over)

So I see you've met PC. Plenty more of that to come.

[man]

Why get into an argument just lie......

And so the race to the bottom continues. I know lying has the potential to make dealing with agents easier but is it really not possible to find a way to act ethically and honestly in these situations? (without rolling over)