Reply to: PMO/ PM Questions from a Newbie

[northernladuk]

I have seen the thread just need to sit and read through properly. You are saying the exact opposite to my friend though and she’s been in constant work in PMO for a long time so I guess i’ll have to make a call after looking into everything. I’m not in a rush. You have certainly been the devils advocate for what I initially thought was a no brainer decision though, which is only a good thing as a lot is at stake.

There are exceptions to all the rules. If I had the time I'd link a number of threads on here where generalists got a first gig and couldn't get the second so had to go back to permie land worse off.

[Slinky]

Just be wary of agents. They are just out for themselves. We've got numerous threads on their carryons. All they care about is their bottom line so if they think they can make a quick buck out of you they will reel you in like a fish. He'll quite happily tell you there are gigs out there for you, which there is, but he won't care they pay peanuts and are few and far between.

I have seen the thread just need to sit and read through properly. You are saying the exact opposite to my friend though and she’s been in constant work in PMO for a long time so I guess i’ll have to make a call after looking into everything. I’m not in a rush. You have certainly been the devils advocate for what I initially thought was a no brainer decision though, which is only a good thing as a lot is at stake.

[Eirikur]

Create two versions of your CV, one focussing on PMO and one on PM. With the limited experience that you have it's easier to find a PMO contract.

[northernladuk]

Just be wary of agents. They are just out for themselves. We've got numerous threads on their carryons. All they care about is their bottom line so if they think they can make a quick buck out of you they will reel you in like a fish. He'll quite happily tell you there are gigs out there for you, which there is, but he won't care they pay peanuts and are few and far between.

[Slinky]

I certainly value your input thanks for responding in such detail. I have an appointment to speak to my contacts recruitment agent tomorrow so that will be interesting to hear whether they think they would be able to place me into roles easily and be willing to root for me.

Flexibility wise yes I understand that employers just want the job done with little fuss, my husband will be first port of call if kids get sick for example (I’m the breadwinner.)

[Slinky]

Because many people try and get a gig straight from employment so they can sit there pretty earning money while looking for work and take a nice easy transition in. Once you are in you are on the clock. You will have nothing coming in while you are on the bench so it's going to be a much more stressful time.

If you don't get responses to gigs while you at your perm place you just shrug your shoulders, if it happens while you are on the bench you are going to start crapping bricks.

Ah ok, well I have a 3 month notice period at my perm role so I won’t get the luxury of waiting for an offer to come in before handing my notice in.

[malvolio]

The other bit that gets missed by people looking to move is that you can often sell yourself into a role at the interview with the potential client. The snag is between you and the interview is someone who doesn't understand your business (nor theirs, a lot of the time) are basically estate agents shifting boxes to make their commission and who rarely have the skills to evaluate anything until you get to properly senior roles (and, all too often, not even then IME...). Hence, if your CV isn't a perfect match for the role, you will get rejected immediately - and usually won't even hear back from the agent, they're far too busy being important - so you're working in a vacuum.

It can be done, obviously, or there wouldn't be any contractors out there, but you have to really understand the game and the challenges it poses. Or be something specialised (which you aren't). Or be extraordinarily lucky (which you may be but don't bet the mortgage on it).

[northernladuk]

Thanks for your feedback, I'm 32 and have been with same company for 11 years I was finance transactions manager but found my passion was in project work so took a sidestep internally to get into projects. Had children in the meantime (i'm female, if that makes any difference)

It doesn't make any difference no. That said (and applies to both genders) you need to be careful if you need flexibility from the off. A client is paying you top dollar to deliver. Waltzing in and telling them you need flexibility from the off may not give the best first impressions. You do deal with people at the end of the day so on the whole they'll be decent but you can't expect it.

If I stay perm here I hope to be promoted to an official PM within the next couple of years, the company I work for are growing rapidly and huge number of projects coming up over next 5 years. It's possibly the most sensible option from what you've said I don't stand a chance at the moment in the contract world.

There is very little scope for promotion and learning in contracting. You could easily get pigeon holed and stay at the same level for the rest of your career. Joining as a junior PM means it's going to long hard road if your ultimate aim is to work on multi million pound projects. I'm a big believer in getting to best level you can permie and then making your money off that for the rest of your contracting career. I'm sure plenty of people on here have stories how they changed careers or learned on the job but there are plenty that haven't.

If you can do a few more years, get to be a solid PM you can command rates considerably higher than 350 a day so seems a sensible approach in the long run to me.

I didn't say you don't have a chance. I just think it could be pretty rocky for awhile and even if it goes well do you want to be a PMO, junior PM for the rest of your days?

Others think you are OK, I'm on the fence but at the end of the day it's for you to put some research in and make a decision based on your personal situation. Have a look around jobserve and see how many gigs there are on there that you fit PERFECTLY. Not 'could do' or 'ill have a go'.

I see one Junior PM for £250 a day but it needs testing experience. A Junior PMO analyst in Edinburgh but rather unsurprisingly no rate. A few other junior type roles paying £250 a day in London.

I see a number of PMO leads but they all have some criteria that I don't think you meet. Prince2 practitioner, ITIL qualifications, x years on major programmes. If you don't meet these someone else will.

I'd say do some research on what you need and get that stuck in your performance review. Tell them you want the qualifications you see on the ad's and get them to give you a career path to PM in the next year or 2. If they won't help with that find another permie role where you can join as a PM/Junior PM and drop the PMO element.

[Slinky]

Ignore what your friends do. You'll be on your own when you go contracting so it's irrelevant what they did. There will be a lot more to your friends story you are probably missing. Temp roles to cover maternity are not a good example. Ask him if he knows anything about IR35 cause I suspect he's got a problem he doesn't realise.


Nope. As has been said you are one not the other. You sell specialised skills as a contractor. There isn't much space for generals that can do a bit of this and a bit of that. No way will you get solid PM roles with PMO smattered around. There is a glut of highly qualified PM's with years of experience coming out of their ears as well as qualifications the length of their arm. You being able to dabble will be no use what so ever.

What do you expect to get PM wise if you've just done a few small projects? There are very few contracts for 'Junior PMs' so you've no marketable skills in that area.

I personally don't think it's that interchangeable either. A good PMO can make a project, as can a good PM. Dabblers don't do either.


Doesn't differentiate you from almost anyone in a project office let alone an industry specialist.


And I think from what you've said you are going to be relying on a very big dose of luck. Would I be right in assuming you've 4 years at the same company? Straight from uni or something? I think you are very borderline if that's the case. You aren't bringing any industry experience and only a few years experience above the first period of learning on the job.

There is also the fact there are plenty of contractors on the bench with much more experience and qualifications.

Personally I think you are on the path but aren't there yet but that's just MHO.

Thanks for your feedback, I'm 32 and have been with same company for 11 years I was finance transactions manager but found my passion was in project work so took a sidestep internally to get into projects. Had children in the meantime (i'm female, if that makes any difference)

If I stay perm here I hope to be promoted to an official PM within the next couple of years, the company I work for are growing rapidly and huge number of projects coming up over next 5 years. It's possibly the most sensible option from what you've said I don't stand a chance at the moment in the contract world.

[northernladuk]

I wonder why that is? My contact has always been extended only ever worked for 2 employers though I know that must throw up IR35 implications.

I will make sure I have enough savings to cover bills for a few months incase.

Because many people try and get a gig straight from employment so they can sit there pretty earning money while looking for work and take a nice easy transition in. Once you are in you are on the clock. You will have nothing coming in while you are on the bench so it's going to be a much more stressful time.

If you don't get responses to gigs while you at your perm place you just shrug your shoulders, if it happens while you are on the bench you are going to start crapping bricks.

[northernladuk]

Contractors in London what have you found are your standard office hours? My current are 40 a week so any better than that is a bonus as my commute will be longer. Have you found it quite easy to WFH when situation allows?

It depends and you can't bank on it. Nothing is guaranteed in contracting so you have to take the rough with the smooth. I certainly wouldn't think about WFH for at least the first couple of weeks until you've proven yourself to your client either.

From my experience I must have hit it a bit unlucky as I've not had a gig that's had free range to WFH in about 6 years. The odd day or two here and there but nothing agreed in the contract. That said I don't really like WFH unless I've a glut of paperwork to do so never push it.

Same with the office hours.

[Lance]

I also project manage independently what the business consider 'smaller projects' includes national and international office setups, upgrades, expansions, decommissioning's.

reading that suggest to me that you might be best to sell yourself as a facilities PM. That'll get more money than PMO. And bluntly £350 a day is a lot for a PMO.
As you've mostly done smaller projects then your experience is going to be the problem so you could start out looking for £250 a day to build experience.

Also. You should consider putting each smaller project into it's own section of a CV to make it look like you do a project, then another, and another, rather than a whole bunch in parallel. That will make you appear more experienced to a casual glance (which is all agencies do).

Good luck.

[Slinky]

Which is generally correct. Do you not think so?

I wonder why that is? My contact has always been extended only ever worked for 2 employers though I know that must throw up IR35 implications.

I will make sure I have enough savings to cover bills for a few months incase.

[northernladuk]

Thanks that's interesting, so maybe sit tight until 5 year mark. My friend walked into contracting after a 9 month temp role covering maternity so I assumed my 4 years would have been ok.

Ignore what your friends do. You'll be on your own when you go contracting so it's irrelevant what they did. There will be a lot more to your friends story you are probably missing. Temp roles to cover maternity are not a good example. Ask him if he knows anything about IR35 cause I suspect he's got a problem he doesn't realise.

I guess I should tailor my CV to adapt to specific role so I could switch between PMO/ PM as the roles come up.

Nope. As has been said you are one not the other. You sell specialised skills as a contractor. There isn't much space for generals that can do a bit of this and a bit of that. No way will you get solid PM roles with PMO smattered around. There is a glut of highly qualified PM's with years of experience coming out of their ears as well as qualifications the length of their arm. You being able to dabble will be no use what so ever.

What do you expect to get PM wise if you've just done a few small projects? There are very few contracts for 'Junior PMs' so you've no marketable skills in that area.

I personally don't think it's that interchangeable either. A good PMO can make a project, as can a good PM. Dabblers don't do either.

I have foundation prince 2 qualification, no official agile qualification but we do use agile here and have had internal training.

Doesn't differentiate you from almost anyone in a project office let alone an industry specialist.

I think you are right, my first step is to get networking. I'd have to hand my notice in before securing a role (I have a 3 month notice period) so I need to be sure something will come up.

And I think from what you've said you are going to be relying on a very big dose of luck. Would I be right in assuming you've 4 years at the same company? Straight from uni or something? I think you are very borderline if that's the case. You aren't bringing any industry experience and only a few years experience above the first period of learning on the job.

There is also the fact there are plenty of contractors on the bench with much more experience and qualifications.

Personally I think you are on the path but aren't there yet but that's just MHO.

[northernladuk]

And someone will come along to say that the second contract is often the hardest to secure...

Which is generally correct and a very good point to make in this instance. Do you not think so?