Reply to: Next Ventures Terrible Contract Conditions

[BigDataPro]

My contacts were Omid and Ana at Next Ventures, I understand contracting is not like permanent job and you only get what you negotiated for. I have seen many contractors using the word PIMP for recruiters including moderator of this board, I am wondering either literally all of them are like that or some have better face value?

Another thing they told me was that the project was cancelled and many other people were impacted too. I am talking about starting of this year and the end client was NN Insurance in Prague, Czech Republic, just wondering either it's true.

Second thing that I fail to understand is, as I understand the recruiters work based on work order and they confirmed earlier they had already received the work order. Can the Client cancel the work order without any penalty?

Correction. You don't even get what you negotiated for. You always have to have plan B.

This is why a contractor must have the skills that would make a a client not to loose you. And permies would be no where near this. And that's why contractor rates are what they are.

If your skills are hot, you wouldn't have raised this question at all. As a contractor, we keep ourselves on top of the game. We produce and deliver things that might take permies, years to achieve. And that's where we make the difference (unless you are good at kajoling / convincing your timesheet guy).

So, you have been contracting for 3 years, some agent/client screwed it up, just move on.

//I pointed to another benign looking clause in the contract he got disappointed and said he can't help in such case...

What was it that you pointed out ...If you are unwilling to provide this info, nobody can guess it and provide an answer that you will find suitable.

If you are unwilling to provide this info, then you get what you negotiated for or capable of.

[faisalsb]

My Contacts...

I had been contracting through them for nearly 3 years. Their payment schedule was 6 weeks from the invoice date, which was a bit long but I went on with it. Who is your contact, was it Darren?

My contacts were Omid and Ana at Next Ventures, I understand contracting is not like permanent job and you only get what you negotiated for. I have seen many contractors using the word PIMP for recruiters including moderator of this board, I am wondering either literally all of them are like that or some have better face value?

Another thing they told me was that the project was cancelled and many other people were impacted too. I am talking about starting of this year and the end client was NN Insurance in Prague, Czech Republic, just wondering either it's true.

Second thing that I fail to understand is, as I understand the recruiters work based on work order and they confirmed earlier they had already received the work order. Can the Client cancel the work order without any penalty?

[BigDataPro]

I had been contracting through them for nearly 3 years. Their payment schedule was 6 weeks from the invoice date, which was a bit long but I went on with it. Who is your contact, was it Darren?

[abu1]

Does it really matter???? you are contracted to do a certain job in a a specific place for a length of time just go on and do it

[northernladuk]

Well it wasn't my first contract in fact as I mentioned earlier I did negotiated the contract and ensured I will get the minimum number of hours work every week and the lawyer I consulted he also agreed that I should be paid for the notice period but when I pointed to another benign looking clause in the contract he got disappointed and said he can't help in such case.

Have you ever heard of this company? I have come across one old thread with the similar issues for Next Ventures on this board, so I am just curious if there are others in the same boat.

Fancy telling us what it is so we have a hope of trying to help you? I'd focus on the problems with the contract rather than the company for the moment. As we've all pointed out already, from our experiences this isn't uncommon and you aren't due notice period. You seem to think other wise. Until we've cleared this up it isn't necessarily the agent at fault.

We've had plenty of threads where people go off on one about the agent or the client and got the wrong end of the stick from the off so apologies if we seem to be focusing on the contract.


EDIT : Would this clause be something around not being paid without a signed timesheet would it?

[faisalsb]

It wasn't my first contract but ....

This isn’t unusual in the contract market. It’s not nice but not unusual. It’s up to you to read the contract and either negotiate bits out of it or choose not to sign at all.

Was this your first contract or was it permanent employment (as you’re referring to yourself as an employee)?

Well it wasn't my first contract in fact as I mentioned earlier I did negotiated the contract and ensured I will get the minimum number of hours work every week and the lawyer I consulted he also agreed that I should be paid for the notice period but when I pointed to another benign looking clause in the contract he got disappointed and said he can't help in such case.

Have you ever heard of this company? I have come across one old thread with the similar issues for Next Ventures on this board, so I am just curious if there are others in the same boat.

[faisalsb]

Thanks for replies

Well couple of clarifications, I am doing contracting for last 3 years and it was not my first contract. It was agreed in the contract that the client will provide the minimum number of hours workload to the supplier (me) and if client fails to assign the workload agreed in the contract still he will pay for the minimum hours agreed. So no bulltulip like if they don't assign me work then they are not supposed to pay. It was certainly difficult negotiations to get all those changes to the contract since they were simply not willing to change anything instead lieing and making funny interpretations of the clauses what even a fool will not believe. Even after having all that clarity I still missed one clause and it costed me large sum of money since I left an existing contract for this one.

But I am still wondering either anyone ever worked for them and have any good or bad experience?

[northernladuk]

@OP - Did you happen to join IPSE before signing the contract? If so, then you could be protected under the terms where the Agency breaks the contract?

https://www.ipse.co.uk/member-benefits.html

This. The T&C's say..

https://www.ipse.co.uk/our/terms-and-conditions.html

5. Failure of an Agency to honour contractual arrangements

a. If an agency cancels your contract before you start work IPSE will pay you compensation of £1,000 provided that

· The contract had been signed by both parties

· The reason for cancellation excludes any form of misrepresentation on the part of the IPSE member

· The reason for cancellation excludes any form of disqualification of the IPSE member due to:-

o Failure of identity verification checks

o Failure of other background checks including but not limited to credit, CRB and DBS checks

o Failure to prove you have the right to work in the United Kingdom

There does seem to be a slip up on their pages though. If you expand the basic membership section there appears to be a typo

Up to £1,000 compensation if an agency breaks its contract

If an agency does not meet the terms of the contract that is in place IPSE will compensate you up to £2,000 based on your day rate as per your current contract**

[Scruff]

@OP - Did you happen to join IPSE before signing the contract? If so, then you could be protected under the terms where the Agency breaks the contract?

https://www.ipse.co.uk/member-benefits.html

[Dylan]

Why agreed? It's in black and white in most contracts that you don't get paid for work not done and damages?? Really?

I simply agreed that it was the funniest part of the situation. Well at least I found it funny.

[northernladuk]

Agreed

Why agreed? It's in black and white in most contracts that you don't get paid for work not done and damages?? Really?

[northernladuk]

What utter piffle!

You don't even know if the OP has recently moved to contract work. Yes, the OP is mistaken in a number of key areas, but that doesn't mean he should run back to his former employer with his tail between his legs, nor does it mean he needs to "return" (if he indeed he is a former permie) to permanent employment.

Instead, he should dust himself off, put it down to experience, and find the next contract.

Well there are a couple of pointers to his status. I very much doubt he's got 25 years a contractor, he says he's resigned from his job, he calls himself and employee and there is a large degree of naivety in the entire post so it's pretty safe to assume this is his first venture in to contracting and it's hit him hard.

You'll note the exact working UK Contractor used was 'can you not ask for your old job back.' so looked to me he was just offering the OP an option to get earning again. If he's got zero warchest and the prospect of no income for an unknown period of time it's certainly something the OP may have to consider.

I wouldn't have suggested it I don't think but it's far from utter piffle. It's a fair option to a situation we don't know and could be an option.

[fiisch]

OP sorry this happened to you but not being funny either a 25 year perm career is virtually worthless in the current contractor market.

Its all about rate, people skills & how much contractor experience you actually have. Agencies hold almost all the cards as well due to supply and demand (over saturated & lower demand). All you have is 25 years perm experience look immediately for another perm role it will be way easier to get that than a first time contract as most agents & end clients want experienced contractors who can start tomorrow & do most of the job from day 1.

Your experience is not uncommon either the end client either found someone cheaper, cancelled the project, resourced someone internally or the agency got someone better or much cheaper! This happens ALL the time in modern IT contracting you have minimal security or legal protection. Almost all agents are sales commission based & the vast majority have no IT experience or understanding so you are not dealing with peers to them its rate first then can they get you placed at the end client if the profit margin suits them. With few exceptions (keeping larger or historical end clients happy) this is exactly how they operate.

Good luck but even if you manage to secure another perm role it can take 4-6 weeks to pass their vetting requirements it sounds terrible but can you not ask for your old job back. Tell them you made a massive mistake & your sorry as that is better than waiting around weeks to start or even get another role. If you have a family to support & mortgage to pay I would strongly advise you do that ASAP its no fun living on savings & struggling to find another well paid job at the moment.

What utter piffle!

You don't even know if the OP has recently moved to contract work. Yes, the OP is mistaken in a number of key areas, but that doesn't mean he should run back to his former employer with his tail between his legs, nor does it mean he needs to "return" (if he indeed he is a former permie) to permanent employment.

Instead, he should dust himself off, put it down to experience, and find the next contract.

[uk contractor]

OP sorry this happened to you but not being funny either a 25 year perm career is virtually worthless in the current contractor market.

Its all about rate, people skills & how much contractor experience you actually have. Agencies hold almost all the cards as well due to supply and demand (over saturated & lower demand). All you have is 25 years perm experience look immediately for another perm role it will be way easier to get that than a first time contract as most agents & end clients want experienced contractors who can start tomorrow & do most of the job from day 1.

Your experience is not uncommon either the end client either found someone cheaper, cancelled the project, resourced someone internally or the agency got someone better or much cheaper! This happens ALL the time in modern IT contracting you have minimal security or legal protection. Almost all agents are sales commission based & the vast majority have no IT experience or understanding so you are not dealing with peers to them its rate first then can they get you placed at the end client if the profit margin suits them. With few exceptions (keeping larger or historical end clients happy) this is exactly how they operate.

Good luck but even if you manage to secure another perm role it can take 4-6 weeks to pass their vetting requirements it sounds terrible but can you not ask for your old job back. Tell them you made a massive mistake & your sorry as that is better than waiting around weeks to start or even get another role. If you have a family to support & mortgage to pay I would strongly advise you do that ASAP its no fun living on savings & struggling to find another well paid job at the moment.

[northernladuk]

Welcome to contracting. You are now in a client/supplier relationship which isn't a level playing field at all hence it being one sided. It's about the work you are going to do for them so it's all about you hence the one sided contract.

Contracts being canned at the last minute does happen. The risk of this rises exponentially with time so if you were on a one month notice it gives far too much time for the situation to change.

Not being paid notice is totally normal. As a contractor you are in a T&M contract. You get paid for the work you do. Period. You'll be surprised to find out they can also bin you on the spot even if they have a notice period. They just don't offer you work so you don't get paid. Effective instant dismissal even if the contract is running.

Forget all this compensation and damages rubbish as well.

If you are signing contracts you need to make sure you are understand IR35 and get your contract checked first as well.

The fact you've called yourself an employee us the rest shows you haven't understood contracting at all I'm afraid.

You might have a 25 year permie career but apart from the tech knowledge you've not really got anything now. You are a contractor now. You need to forget most of what you know of permie world and start again else you are going to trip over problems and get disappointed fairly regularly. You are a business now so need to start thinking like one.