Reply to: A1 Certificate from HMRC in order to do work in the EU

[NotAllThere]

I think you need to get some specialist advice. Or raise an appeal against HMRC's decision.

[Kontraktor]

Why is that? Where is your ltd co based?

Hi, It's based in the UK, though my assignments are outside of the UK. These assignments are for around 4-5 months. For the remaining time, I work in the UK but as a self-employed. #A1 #hmrc #a1certificate

[NotAllThere]

The key reason for it was that my Ltd. does not carry out substantial activities in the UK

Why is that? Where is your ltd co based?

[cojak]

Hi All,

I have the following case.

I have my own Ltd. and I am about to start my contract with a company that is registered in Poland. This company assigns me to posts in different countries in Europe, e.g. Germany. Before I commence my assignment I have to provide the A1 certificate. I applied for it with HMRC but my application was declined. The key reason for it was that my Ltd. does not carry out substantial activities in the UK which is right. As an additional comment, I carry out work while in the UK as a self-employed.

Did you have a similar case or know what actions should I take to be able to do my contract (given I have no A1 certificate) and at the same time comply with the regulations?

Thanks for your advice in advance.
Kontraktor

No.

Your A1 certificate was declined. Without that you are unable to comply with the regulations short of moving to the U.K. and reapplying.

(The additional comment simply means that HMRC have obviously thought that it wasn’t substantive enough)

[Kontraktor]

A1 Certificate

Hi All,

I have the following case.

I have my own Ltd. and I am about to start my contract with a company that is registered in Poland. This company assigns me to posts in different countries in Europe, e.g. Germany. Before I commence my assignment I have to provide the A1 certificate. I applied for it with HMRC but my application was declined. The key reason for it was that my Ltd. does not carry out substantial activities in the UK which is right. As an additional comment, I carry out work while in the UK as a self-employed.

Did you have a similar case or know what actions should I take to be able to do my contract (given I have no A1 certificate) and at the same time comply with the regulations?

Thanks for your advice in advance.
Kontraktor

[BlasterBates]

I have paid National Insurance in the past in the UK whilst working in another European country. In order to do this you need an employment relationship with a company in the UK. My agency employed me to do some "marketing" and I was expected to make a least three trips to the UK and carry out the work there. I was sent some marketing forms to fill out.

In other words you need a provable employment relationship with a company, and where the work is carried out in the UK.

[Sue B]

Hi Stelios,

If you are going to be self employed, then the A1 form is correct.

However, if you are going to have a Ltd Company in Greece then you wont be able to apply for a UK A1 Certificate, as you are employed by a Greek entity.

The A1 is a posted worker form, so is to be completed either by a UK employer, or by a self employed person who resides habitually in the UK. You will need to understand what your status is going to be in Greece first.

HTH

[skafetzakis]

Hello all, unfortunately i have the same problem, but i am not self employed in UK. i work for a company and i am going to be a selp-employed in Greece. So I cannot find the right A1 form.

I am going to have a company under my name in Greece and the Greek government asked me to have a proof that I am paying National insurance in order to avoid double payment for Insurance, this is a form called A1.

I am looking on GOV.UK but I cannot find the right link to apply. The only I found is National Insurance: apply for a portable document A1/E101 if self-employed in European Economic Area (CA3837)

National Insurance: apply for a portable document A1/E101 if self-employed in European Economic Area (CA3837) - GOV.UK

It seems that this could be the right one but when I trying to complete the steps, it asking me personal information for Self-employment in the UK, UTR, etc. I am not self-employed in UK, so I assume that there is a different form to apply.



So I need to send to Greece the A1 form which includes the Certificate of National insurance, to show that I am paying from day I started work in UK until present day.

Have anyone any idea who can i find that form?



Best Regards

Stelios

[m0n1k3r]

Not 100% sure yet but possibility of doing a rotation of 10 on and 4 off for the duration of the projects. Projects would be in the region of 2-3 years.

I understand this has tax implications in regards to time spent out of the UK but i didn't think this was linked to the A1 certificate?

Thanks

The A1 certificate only impacts social security. It has no implications on taxes.

[MarkjCox]

How often will you have to work in Europe? And for what periods?

Not 100% sure yet but possibility of doing a rotation of 10 on and 4 off for the duration of the projects. Projects would be in the region of 2-3 years.

I understand this has tax implications in regards to time spent out of the UK but i didn't think this was linked to the A1 certificate?

Thanks

[m0n1k3r]

I've been working abroad for the last 12 years and therefore have not paid UK tax or NI within that period. Prior to that, i had paid tax and NI contributions for 16 years,

I am looking to move back to the UK and I am in discussions for a job with a UK based company which will involve working in mainland Europe.

The potential employer is concerned I will not be eligible to obtain an A1 certificate having not had a recent history paying tax and NI.

Tried calling HMRC but not getting anywhere fast.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

If you don't have or can get an A1 certificate then you will simply be liable to instead pay social security in the country where you work. That is the basic rule, and the A1 certificate simply provides an exemption from it. Following Brexit, there most likely won't be an A1 certificate to be had from the HMRC anyway. Ability to work in mainland Europe (assuming you don't mean Russia, Belarus, Ukraine or Serbia, which is pretty much the only countries not part of the EU or the EEA) without being an employee of a company based there might be questionable anyway.

[SueEllen]

How often will you have to work in Europe? And for what periods?

[MarkjCox]

Looking for help on the same subject

I've been working abroad for the last 12 years and therefore have not paid UK tax or NI within that period. Prior to that, i had paid tax and NI contributions for 16 years,

I am looking to move back to the UK and I am in discussions for a job with a UK based company which will involve working in mainland Europe.

The potential employer is concerned I will not be eligible to obtain an A1 certificate having not had a recent history paying tax and NI.

Tried calling HMRC but not getting anywhere fast.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

[m0n1k3r]

Wanted to know if others have came across this.

I recently setup my own Ltd Co in the UK and have signed contract with a UK agency to pay my Limited Co a rate for a job in Ireland for a period of 6 months.

Agency says in order to me compliant, I must produce an A1 Certificate immediately to indicate that I am paying National Insurance.

Social security (national insurance in the UK) is regulated across the EU so that a person should only have to be registered for social security in one country at a time (the UK tend to ignore this). The A1 certificate simply says in which country you are registered for social security for those cases where your employer (e.g. your own limited company) sends (posts) you to another EU member state to work there for a limited time, or where you have several employers in different countries. There is a wealth of guidance about this on the EU Commission website.

In general, companies are thought of being more than one person. The management sits firmly in one country (say, the UK) and have employees (such as yourself) who works for customers in various countries. Micro entities where actual company management moves to where the customers are and where work is performed (as is the case with one-man businesses) is not a good fit for this. It is assumed that one-person businesses are not companies, but self employed (as one-man contractors actually tend to be in most EU countries, save for the UK and Ireland). If you were instead self employed in the UK and would send yourself out to work for a customer in Ireland, then you would have no trouble getting an A1 certificate.

HMRC has declined my application since I am not registered as Self Employed, I work for my own Limited Co in the UK, even though the work is in Ireland. My accountants say that early in 2019 they will submit a tax return for me and at that stage I will pay the appropriate Nat Ins and that the agreed rate should be paid to my Limited Co now without the immediate need for the A1 Certificate.

Without an A1 certificate that makes it clear that you would pay NI in the UK, your employer (e.g. your limited company) might have to register as a foreign employer in Ireland and make PRSI etc contributions there.

Some good information here: Posted workers

As Sue writes, this is for social security/national insurance only. Tax is a different matter altogether that is based on double-tax treaties between countries rather than on EU regulations.

Always bear in mind that when you operate through a company or some other legal entity, the company is not "you" and there are in fact two separate entities involved - the employer (your company) and the employee (you). You might call yourself a director, but as soon as you do anything else than sit in board meetings and work on the company's long-term strategy, you are in fact an employee of your own company. All legislation and regulations are written based on this assumption.

Countries also tend to want to keep track of which foreign EU companies have posted workers to their country, mainly in order to uphold local workplace regulations. In Ireland your employer (your company) is supposed to report posted employees (e.g. you) to the Workplace Relations Commission: Posted Workers. No such reporting requirement or even facility exists in the UK.

[Sue B]

recently set up ltd company and got an accountant. got a contract in the eu.
agency had some compliance tasks, including the a1.

the accountant setup a paye for me, and I posted off the ca3821/ca3822 forms.
rejected by hmrc after 3 months...

before setting the company up I was made redundant at an IT company and spent several months without work, so no ni contributions in between.
even though I spend 2 days a week at home working for the client, I would guess that doesn't count as significant uk activity.

So, do I just bite the bullet and tell the agency I won't be getting an a1 from hmrc (I have appealed to them anyway).
and also, it it just ni/social security tax, or all tax?

thanks.

Well sometimes appeals do work, however, there needs to be a really compelling reason for them to change their mind, and i would have thought the rejection for you came because of the lack of trading presence, not the lack of NI contributions, as being out of work is an acceptable reason not to pay them.

Even if you do get the A1 accepted, please note it is only to cover NI contributions and tax is another matter altogether. You need to look at where the work is performed, and who is the economic employer. This will be whoever ultimately bears the cost of hiring you, so not your PSC, not any intermediary, but the end client. If the economic employer has a permanent establishment in the country where you work, you will be considered taxable on that income in that country from day 1.

HTH