Reply to: Agency pre-empting private sector IR35 changes in April?

[GammaMadrid]

S Three are talking about changing their contracts to a much more deliverables-based model (something one or two of us have been banging on about for some years) and a more B2B basis. If that's what this is about, it will strengthen your IR35 position significantly, so this may not be bad news. So it may be in your best interests to go in with an open mind.

Or it could mean you are inside IR35 now.

[northernladuk]

So did this meeting happen? What was the outcome?

[northernladuk]

So ....about this rash I've found ......

Is it mildly annoying that pops up from time to time when you least expect it and appears to serve no purpose?
That's simes. You'll get used to him.

[fatJock]

If we only get half a story, we're at liberty to make the rest up.

So ....about this rash I've found ......

[LondonManc]

I think some posters have made a massive leap assuming my meeting will affect S3s approach to private sector IR35 determination. One disposable contractor won’t set customer policy either. For all I know, other contractors with the same customer are also having catch ups, this may just be part of them.

Contracting may be new to me but I’ve been dealing with agents and recruiting contractors when perm for 25yrs+ .... I’m not a fresh faced youth who is going to be sold a pup.

So ....I’m assuming no other poster here knows of their agency wanting to discuss potential IR35 legislation changes with their customers or their contractors which was my original question. I think some have gone right off tangent.

If we only get half a story, we're at liberty to make the rest up.

[jamesbrown]

I think some have gone right off tangent.

Of course we bloody have, that's what we do best!

[fatJock]

Fair play NLUK. I hadn’t read much into it to be fair and assumed it’s just another catch up with the customer with s more valid agenda/discussion topic.

Suspect it’s little more than discussing the inevitable contingency planning that S3 and others will be doing. Nowt more than that which others have alluded to - no bad thing to be forward thinking.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’ve never inferred I’d be more than a bystander in any process and it’s never been communicated otherwise. I’ll be careful what I ask on here now

[northernladuk]

6 months before the public sector changes hit I got agency to come in and speak to my client to try and get prepared for when it hit but turned out to be a waste of time. Neither knew enough to make it worthwhile.

I also invited my agency and come in and discuss the blanket approach my last PS was applying last year but they were too chicken so that came to nothing as well.

Ive never had a private sector client/agent involve me in a discussion like yours and don't think I can ever recall it happening to anyone else. I don't think I'd be expected to either to be honest.

[fatJock]

I think some posters have made a massive leap assuming my meeting will affect S3s approach to private sector IR35 determination. One disposable contractor won’t set customer policy either. For all I know, other contractors with the same customer are also having catch ups, this may just be part of them.

Contracting may be new to me but I’ve been dealing with agents and recruiting contractors when perm for 25yrs+ .... I’m not a fresh faced youth who is going to be sold a pup.

So ....I’m assuming no other poster here knows of their agency wanting to discuss potential IR35 legislation changes with their customers or their contractors which was my original question. I think some have gone right off tangent.

[jamesbrown]

Correct, but there should be - it would make it easier for everyone then.

There are problems with CEST as an implementation (e.g. MoO), but the main problem with CEST is not the implementation, but the idea that such a checklist (and, ultimately, a weighted aggregation of factors that produces a classification) could ever correlate well with case law.

[malvolio]

Correct, but there should be - it would make it easier for everyone then.

That's why we got the abomination that is the CEST tool, that disregards 30% of case law...

[LondonManc]

Tsk tsk…. There ain't no such animal.

Correct, but there should be - it would make it easier for everyone then.

[malvolio]

If I were S3, I'd be equally concerned about a green contractor cocking up the potential private sector implementation because they aren't clued up by either at best confusing the client or at worst scaring them into a blanket decision. Better for S3 to sell the benefits of strong determination if they can - explaining the scenarios where contracts are inside and outside and with the help of, say, QDOS, come up with a simple IR35 ticklist of pointers for both contracts and working practices.

Tsk tsk…. There ain't no such animal.

[LondonManc]

This was my first thought when this thread started. The OP seems pretty confident in what he does but it appears he's still in his first contract and is only 15 months in. If he's done his homework he should know enough about IR35 to not be blind sided in this meeting but can he add any extra value? Does he really need to? I guess he can just sit there and digest the meeting firstly and consider it's implications afterwards.

I have to say though, if I thought any one of 80%+ of the contractors on my gig were called in to a similar meeting I'd be very unhappy that their opinions might shape the status of my gig.

Just imagine PC championing the new IR35 status of gigs on your site?!

No harm to go in, listen and investigate later though. Not sure it would be on here though. If S3 still read the forums it won't be hard to work out who the OP is.

If I were S3, I'd be equally concerned about a green contractor cocking up the potential private sector implementation because they aren't clued up by either at best confusing the client or at worst scaring them into a blanket decision. Better for S3 to sell the benefits of strong determination if they can - explaining the scenarios where contracts are inside and outside and with the help of, say, QDOS, come up with a simple IR35 ticklist of pointers for both contracts and working practices.

[fatJock]

Guys thanks for the responses - yes, pretty up to date with IR35. First time contractor but have recruited many over the years. I have my contracts and working practices reviewed by QDos and also have IPSE+ membership so am fairly read up.

It does sound that S3 are being proactive so I'll feed back on anything general that was of note. My original post wasn't to cause an argument - was just to see if anyone else had had a similar approach. I know that I'm just one of the S3 contactors with the customer so I suspect it's just general planning for any eventualities. I for one would happily move closer to a B2B / deliverables focussed engagement as the work I am on is distinct project delivery.

There is no MOO but I have been here a while purely because new projects have come up naturally which I've been happy to pick up as they've been of interest. Got nothing to hide from S3 if they read the forums or not