Reply to: Requiring Technical References...

[man]

I've had this asked of me before and I simply invite them to get in touch with people who have recommended me on LinkedIn as the way I look at it, this information is already publically out there so I'm not giving anything away. Have also previously had an end client do exactly this (ask a LI recommender) without asking permission (fortunately the recommender was happy to back up their recommendation so I got the gig - and I don't blame the client for checking).

I've yet to provide an agency with anything else in relation to 'technical references'. It's all a load of rubbish anyway, as people who like you will (hopefully) say you know plenty about the technologies and those who don't will probably say you're rubbish irrespective.

If anyone does feel like giving away more, don't give them your hiring manager details otherwise you really have fallen into the 'just 2 references' trap.

[LondonManc]

I agree in principle but the dilemma is, what if you are 50/50 sure a job is genuine based on the lengths they went to explain it, but that they will not put you forward without a reference?

That is where I found myself and after losing a couple of potential gigs to this I caved.

I would much prefer to have money and vaguely possibly piss off some people, so I figured calculated risk.

I think you'll find the probabilities are the reverse of what you've suggested.

[FIERCE TANK BATTLE]

Any organization that gives a reference can be sued.

If I really had to give a technical reference, I would never involve the agent. I would only give it to the client.

I agree in principle but the dilemma is, what if you are 50/50 sure a job is genuine based on the lengths they went to explain it, but that they will not put you forward without a reference?

That is where I found myself and after losing a couple of potential gigs to this I caved.

I would much prefer to have money and vaguely possibly piss off some people, so I figured calculated risk.

[HugeWhale]

Did an agent tell you that?

That's it.

[LondonManc]

Not my experience.
If an organisation wants you to project manage, say, a ERP implementation they want to hear from other organisations you've done this for before. Clients will sometimes want to know that you have a verifiable track record before they interview you. Not always, but sometimes.

Never heard of that it my life. Did an agent tell you that?

[GreenMirror]

Not my experience.
If an organisation wants you to project manage, say, a ERP implementation they want to hear from other organisations you've done this for before. Clients will sometimes want to know that you have a verifiable track record before they interview you. Not always, but sometimes.

Any organization that gives a reference can be sued.

If I really had to give a technical reference, I would never involve the agent. I would only give it to the client.

[HugeWhale]

Any reputable agent(oxymoron?) will understand you can only give your last agent as a reference. Anything else is fishing.

Not my experience.
If an organisation wants you to project manage, say, a ERP implementation they want to hear from other organisations you've done this for before. Clients will sometimes want to know that you have a verifiable track record before they interview you. Not always, but sometimes.

[GreenMirror]

Any reputable agent(oxymoron?) will understand you can only give your last agent as a reference. Anything else is fishing.

[LondonManc]

Is it actually banned by law or just bad idea, so most don't?

Apologies - I was at a place at the time where they decreed them as banned, presumably for the protection from litigation:
https://www.gov.uk/work-reference <-- here's the full details of the rules.

[northernladuk]

Is it actually banned by law or just bad idea, so most don't?

It's not banned by law. It opens whoever gave the bad reference to potential legal issues. If I lost a gig because someone said I was crap with absolutely no evidence I'd be able to sue them. There is no benefit for anyone to open themselves to that level of risk so it's a bad idea to give anything but the basic facts.

[gables]

Dave hasn't quit yet and Bill doesn't want him to.
It's very difficult to get rid of permies these days because they're "a bit crap". If they really suck, it still takes a performance review or two, so potentially 18 months.

That's partly why the who subjective references thing was banned - you never know how valid the reference was; "oh yeah, he's great" could mean what it says, or "please take him, it will save us getting rid"

Is it actually banned by law or just bad idea, so most don't?

[LondonManc]

How would Bill give a bad reference for Dave and make sense of the fact that he hasn't fired Dave for his poor work?

Dave hasn't quit yet and Bill doesn't want him to.
It's very difficult to get rid of permies these days because they're "a bit crap". If they really suck, it still takes a performance review or two, so potentially 18 months.

That's partly why the who subjective references thing was banned - you never know how valid the reference was; "oh yeah, he's great" could mean what it says, or "please take him, it will save us getting rid"

[1manshow]

Not only that but there has been anecdotal evidence of bad references given because Bill rates highly and doesn't want Dave to leave. Dave therefore fails to get the job he's applied for.

How would Bill give a bad reference for Dave and make sense of the fact that he hasn't fired Dave for his poor work?

[LondonManc]

Any technical references have to come people you personally know and may have worked with. This is because as LondonManc said if someone in a company gives you a technical reference and it is untrue, you can sue them and the company for defamation.

Not only that but there has been anecdotal evidence of bad references given because Bill rates highly and doesn't want Dave to leave. Dave therefore fails to get the job he's applied for.

[SueEllen]

Any technical references have to come people you personally know and may have worked with. This is because as LondonManc said if someone in a company gives you a technical reference and it is untrue, you can sue them and the company for deflamation.