Reply to: Client asking me to go to their customer's site to represent them

[m0n1k3r]

Does the circumstances I've described to you sound like an IR35 flag?

No.

Or am I being O.T.T and should accept their request to attend sessions with their customers on the customer site?

I would go there if it was me. As a consultant, I'm brought in to provide value to their business through advice, expertise or by helping their business grow. Freelance sales people do that for their clients on a daily basis.

[clearedforlanding]

I think you are missing a trick here, you have direct access to the end client.

Get logo-ed up. Hand out pens, baseball caps and USB keys. You might want to consider getting your van wrapped.

[billybiro]

If you don't know how the client has represented you, then how can you know they have misrepresented you?

As a professional business, you should be asking your client how they have represented you. I realise that some people on here are more about shifting blame rather than acting professionally.

It's up to a business to act professionally. I am a business, if I act professionally then I know I have done my bit. Acting professionally includes asking questions before going to meetings and not shooting your mouth off because you don't have the pertinent facts.

Yes, but the problem with this is that those clients who are likely to misrepresent you to their clients (i.e. lie) are also likely to lie directly to you when you ask them how you've been represented.

Therefore, the easiest thing is to tell your client, at the time of engagement, that you are a total professional and as part of that professionalism you won't lie about who or what you are to anybody. Now you're free to tell your client's client that you're a contractor. You will have acted entirely professionally, and if your client has misrepresented you then they'll be the one who has acted unprofessionally.

[psychocandy]

As a contractor you may not know the ins and outs of exactly how the client operates, which is why you have to choose your language carefully.

True. But I turn up on site and I'm representing the client - no-one is really going to ask most of the time.

If they do ask, then I've got nothing to hide and I'll tell them the truth. Again thats the clients problem if hes trying to keep things from his customers.

[WTFH]

No, what's "very unprofessional" is your client misrepresenting you to their clients and then expecting you to go along with the deception.

If you don't know how the client has represented you, then how can you know they have misrepresented you?

As a professional business, you should be asking your client how they have represented you. I realise that some people on here are more about shifting blame rather than acting professionally.

It's up to a business to act professionally. I am a business, if I act professionally then I know I have done my bit. Acting professionally includes asking questions before going to meetings and not shooting your mouth off because you don't have the pertinent facts.

[billybiro]

Do NOT do that unless your client has said that is acceptable.

If the client has told their end customer that you are an employee (or not making it clear that you are not an employee) and you go in telling everyone that you're a contractor, you might not be hanging around very long. Very unprofessional.

No, what's "very unprofessional" is your client misrepresenting you to their clients and then expecting you to go along with the deception.

[billybiro]

a few resignations and a sabbatical

On the other, I am the only techie working on the backend of the project

Unless you're contracted as a "hiring manager" or "talent resource manager, your client's staffing problems are none of your concern.

[SueEllen]

2) I disagree. Why can't you represent your client? They're paying you. You're a professional. They want you to represent them. What's the issue?

As a contractor you may not know the ins and outs of exactly how the client operates, which is why you have to choose your language carefully.

[psychocandy]

Feck me - does it matter what you're working relationship is with your client? i.e. permie or contractor.

Client has asked you to represent them. So what? Done it millions of time - you really don't need to tell their customer you're a contractor - its not relevant.

On the plus side, if client trusts you to represent them then its all good.

Paying for travel though is another thing. Unless you knew up front then no way - they need to shell out. (I did have one contract once that said "visits to customer site max once per fortnight- no expenses paid" so I factored this in. Ended up going about once every two months)

[Lance]

Contract says I need to pay for any expenses.

On the one hand my gut feeling is that it is inappropriate for me as a contractor to go and meet my client's customers on customer sites and represent their interests, and a permie lead should be doing it.

1) Insist they pay these expenses. This is an unexpected change in circumstances, although not a change in project. The chances are they'll be fine with that and your contract says not just as a formality. I normally get a contract updated to say 'any expenses, agreed in advance with the client can be claimed' or similar.

2) I disagree. Why can't you represent your client? They're paying you. You're a professional. They want you to represent them. What's the issue?

[vwdan]

Don't worry about it - I've even done this as a permie consultant, complete with "careful" language. Hint: You're here "on behalf of", and you work "with", not for your client.

I've had a few clients ask that I go all out and pretend to be a permie - I just point out that my CV and LinkedIn are all over the internet, IT is a small world and when (and it will) it all comes out everyone is going to look very foolish.

[SueEllen]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Contractual concerns aside, I am quite happy to go to the client's customer's site and I see why they want me to go.

I just wanted to ensure that it would be 'appropriate' for me to do so, and ensure that I don't incorrectly paint myself as an employee by agreeing to it.

I've done it loads.

As long as you and the client don't lie about your status you are fine.

Some people may accuse either of you of using politician like language to clarify your relationship but if they are too fecking thick to understand that not everyone the client has is an employee it's their own problem.

[7specialgems]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Contractual concerns aside, I am quite happy to go to the client's customer's site and I see why they want me to go.

I just wanted to ensure that it would be 'appropriate' for me to do so, and ensure that I don't incorrectly paint myself as an employee by agreeing to it.

[WTFH]

Introduce yourself to them as a contractor working on behalf of whoever.

Do NOT do that unless your client has said that is acceptable.

If the client has told their end customer that you are an employee (or not making it clear that you are not an employee) and you go in telling everyone that you're a contractor, you might not be hanging around very long. Very unprofessional.

If the client asks you to represent them in a meeting, you need to get them to make it clear to their customer that you are a contractor and are providing advice as such. When handled properly it can work in your favour.

My bigger concern would be about the expenses side of things. If the customer site is further for you to travel than to the client, I'd want to make sure the client was paying for it.

...my advice is based on contracting for about 20 years and having sat in similar meetings

[l35kee]

Introduce yourself to them as a contractor working on behalf of whoever. Then forget about it.

Unkess the issue is you don't want to and are looking to use IR35 as an excuse (which is what NLUK was getting st I guess).