Reply to: Asked to work considerably longer hours to hit a deadline

[BR14]

I wouldn't have thought so - or at least it would depend on your line of work, I expect developers to break things (Preferably not in live systems), I also expect there to be bugs in new systems or new features added to new systems which will inevitably slip through testing and show up months down the line.

I wouldnt expect a client to come to me and say - you're fixing bugs today so we're no paying you.

Testing has completed successfully, but unpredictable behaviour may occur??

[Snarf]

IR35 problem there? As a supplier, if you break something you need to fix it at your own expense, not charge the client for the extra work?

I wouldn't have thought so - or at least it would depend on your line of work, I expect developers to break things (Preferably not in live systems), I also expect there to be bugs in new systems or new features added to new systems which will inevitably slip through testing and show up months down the line.

I wouldnt expect a client to come to me and say - you're fixing bugs today so we're no paying you.

[jmo21]

IR35 problem there? As a supplier, if you break something you need to fix it at your own expense, not charge the client for the extra work?

I was referring to working longer hours unpaid.

If I was being paid overtime already to work longer, then I'd already be there :-)

[HugeWhale]

Repeat after me:

"How will I be compensated?"

It's like garlic to a vampire.

[MrLoveBucket]

+1 to the "on occasion, if absolutely necessary" comments, and also if I broke something important.
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IR35 problem there? As a supplier, if you break something you need to fix it at your own expense, not charge the client for the extra work?

[Lance]

I had this at an interview many moons ago, the client mentioned they expected overtime, as it was an hourly rate contract I was more that happy to oblige , so long as everything is up front I don't see the problem.

In that case it's not called 'overtime', just 'time'.

Overtime implies, IMO, either more pay or no pay for the extra hours.

[vwdan]

I had this at an interview many moons ago, the client mentioned they expected overtime, as it was an hourly rate contract I was more that happy to oblige , so long as everything is up front I don't see the problem.

I think this is the thing so many people miss, especially when they're trying to accuse others of being lazy. If you need a lot of upfront effort (time) from people then you need to say. Not everybody can, or wants to work every hour under the sun - there's just too many variables.

I once got pulled into a mental Go-Live as a last minute favour for a friend, charging 1.5x and 2x for most of it over 15-16hr days. When I compiled the invoice I almost wrote some of it off as I was convinced there was no way they were going to pay (They did - twas a good week!)

[SlipTheJab]

I had this at an interview many moons ago, the client mentioned they expected overtime, as it was an hourly rate contract I was more that happy to oblige , so long as everything is up front I don't see the problem.

[sal]

Thanks all - its not me, i'm the PM, willing and praying it over the line.

I'm just a bit shocked at some of the contractors attitudes in our place - We had to ramp up recently, so a lot of new contractors were hired to meet deadlines. More than i would like have turned down overtime because they 'have lives', much to the detriment of the programme.

We can't force people to work, but its hard when a handful of people don't seem to feel bothered by it.

As a self respecting contractor I would feel ashamed to not much in when things were needing doing.

The questions are, why didn't you hire enough new contractors to do the work without everyone having to put "extra" hours? Or why didn't you negotiate longer hours with the newly hired contractors?

Personally I'm happy OK with longer hours near a deadline for a short burst - like a week or two at the end, provided the ClientCo is reasonable in the reverse situation - when I have to leave early for some reason. Any longer than that and it's poor planning and/or stingy ClientCo, meaning it's a NO from me, unless we renegotiate the rate. Couldn't care less about extension under such circumstances. Anyway I will make it clear it's an exception and not something to be expected.

I always enquire about expectation for longer hours/weekend work at the interview, if I don't like what is on the table I just don't go forward with the role.

[d000hg]

Try getting a plumber to work late or weekends for their normal rates.

A plumber just moves onto the next gig and probably has a queue of would-be clients. They don't particularly care if you don't want to use them again or at least aren't going to take a hit. Though that said there are lots of tradesmen who do work long hours to get things finished on time so they can get onto the next job.

My position is generally "make hay while the sun shines" so turning down work is something I struggle with. But if it was more than a few weeks full-on I'd get knackered and stop.

[Agent]

Feel free, just know that you'll be called out on your foolishness at every opportunity.

Wow, I bet you're fun at parties.

[vwdan]

vwdan, if you don't like my comments then ignore them.

Just grow up man, it's pathetic.

I have an opinion and this is a chat forum, get over it, I'm not going anywhere.

Feel free, just know that you'll be called out on your foolishness at every opportunity.

[Agent]

Well, no - people have lives and sometimes they involve not working. Many people contract to work less, not more!

I'm not really sure why you post here, because everything I've seen from you demonstrates an almost painful lack of understanding. In this scenario, it's more like you deciding to project manage building a house, you keep ******* up the plans and are now expecting the (freelance) brickies to come on site over the weekend because you forgot to order in the bricks.

If anything, the B2B side should be less flexible because that's not what's agreed. Many consultancies charge extreme rates - I've worked with/for a few who charge 3-4x over bank holidays (Unless agreed politely well before) specifically to protect their staff and to put off clients.

Yeah, we all heard the carrot and stick line when we were permies too. IME, there's a very careful balance but broadly people need skills and good skills are hard to come by. I'm not saying you can get away with being an arse, but most clients seem to be happy with honest, self respect and a good dose of ability.

vwdan, if you don't like my comments then ignore them.

Just grow up man, it's pathetic.

I have an opinion and this is a chat forum, get over it, I'm not going anywhere.

[billybiro]

Say, if you refused to work, and then the milestone was missed, what would you expect to happen?

The crux of this is the milestone. Is it a milestone against your deliverables or a general milestone?

For example, if I'm contracted to build the XYZ component as part of the ABC web application project, then I care about the milestones for the XYZ component. If I'm falling behind on my part of the project, then I probably would extend some extra effort. (I say "probably" as sometimes you may fall behind through no fault of your own - i.e. missing requirements etc.)

However, if the XYZ component is on schedule, but some general purpose milestone for the delivery of the entire ABC project is falling behind, then I'm afraid that's none of my concern and I certainly don't, under any circumstances, care about that and do extra work to that effect.

I'm a contractor. I have a specific set of deliverables in my contract and I'll do whatever I can to deliver those to my client on time and on budget. Other stuff that isn't directly part of my contract gets ignored.

Obligatory builder analogy: Does the bricklayer work extra (free) hours because the plumber screwed up fitting the pipes?

[psychocandy]

I always think yeh if it all goes pearshaped (I work in support mainly) then I won't zoom off out the door. An emergency is an emergency - poor planning or not enough heads is not.

Even then, most good clients will realise you've put extra hours in and do you a favour in return. Not all. One I've had twice now is important project (release or upgrade) planned for january yet they pull the "two weeks off over xmas for contractors" then expect free hours in january to ensure it doesn't slip. Not going to happen.

Just because you get paid "a lot" in clients eyes does not make you a "free" resource to screw the most out of. Number of times when I've been asked to work Saturday then its become less important when they realise I aint going to do it for free.

OP - do you want to work for someone who expects this sort of thing? I don't - I'd rather get a lesser rate. Even if they pay my hourly - I have kids and family who are more important than money. Many years ago I declined a contract offer because during the interview they said they liked contractors to get in early and leave late (forget details but they basically wanted 10 hour days). Can imagine what it would have been like working there.